Fakenham Boys

[roofuk3]

I'm doing some research on 3 brothers from Fakenham, Norfolk who are remembered on the town memorial. Just wondered if there is anyone who has some information about the towns men? The boys last name is Mitchell.

 

Regards

[Neil 2242]

What sort of information are you after?

And just as importantly,what have you already got?

 

Here are the names on the memorial anyway:

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Norfolk/Fakenham.html

[roofuk3]

I've just the basic really. Checked the roll of honour, soldiers died and war diaries. The brothers are - Alfred Mitchell, Frederick Mitchell and William Mitchell. All are born Fakenham boys. Any information about the brothers woiuld be good.

Cheers Neil

 

 

[corisande]

You would be better off starting a new thread for one of these men, with his name as the trhread title. Wait a few weeks till that his run its course, then start another one for another brother

 

I am unclear if you know, for example , who their parents were, have you the census info, their birth records.

 

Have you read The Long Long Trail that new forum members are asked to read before starting a thread, so that they have the information on how to research a soldier.

 

 

[charlie962]

Neil, Andrew

You haven't given us any details yet but should  I presume your three men are these (from SDGW) ?  I see that none of them have any family details on CWGC and 2 have no known grave. How do you know they are brothers ?

 

First name(s)    Alfred
Last name    Mitchell
Service number    9481
Rank    Private
Regiment    Norfolk Regiment
Battalion    1st Battalion.
Residence    -
Birth place    Fakenham, Norfolk
Enlistment place    Norwich
Death year    1918
Death day    21
Death month    8
Cause of death    Killed in action
Death place    France & Flanders

 

First name(s)    William
Last name    Mitchell
Service number    G/96975
Rank    Private
Regiment    Duke Of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment)
Battalion    2nd Battalion.
Residence    Fakenham
Birth place    Fakenham, Norfolk
Enlistment place    Norwich
Death year    1918
Death day    27
Death month    5
Cause of death    Killed in action
Death place    France & Flanders

 

First name(s)    Frederick
Last name    Mitchell
Service number    267178
Rank    L/cpl
Regiment    Gloucestershire Regiment
Battalion    2/6th Battalion (Territorials).
Residence    -
Birth place    Fakenham, Norfolk
Enlistment place    Fakenham
Death year    1917
Death day    2
Death month    12
Cause of death    Died
Death place    France & Flanders

 

 

Edited 11 December , 2018 by charlie962

[charlie962]

A quick check didn't throw up any obvious service records.

 

Alfred Mitchell has a Hospital Admission 30/9/17  for ICT Feet (ie some sort of foot injury) which tells us at the time he was 1st Bn Norfolks, 21, had 2 years service and 18 months overseas.

 

This might lead us to the family of William Jas and Susanah Mitchell of Oak St Fakenham per the 1911 Census. I see that there are 4 other brothers , two being old enough to serve- Harry Jas? and Arthur.

Edited 10 December , 2018 by charlie962

[charlie962]

Absent Voters 1919 tells us the units of the survivors

Frederick died 1917 so why is he on the list 1919 ?

 

Arthur has a surviving service record that you should look at. He was shellshocked 1917 and severely wounded 1918.

 

The family suffered heavily. There ought to be something in the local papers ?

Edited 10 December , 2018 by charlie962

[clk]

Hi,

 

13 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Frederick died 1917 so why is he on the list 1919 ?

 

Without trying to read too much into it, his Soldiers' Effects record might point towards a possible reason. It says that he died on, or since, 2.12.17, death presumed. Though his outstanding pay wasn't issued to his mother until a year later (24.12.18), [and the War Gratuity  20.11.19]. Speculating, I wonder if his mother/parents were sent something and registered an entitlement/address to vote before the cut off entitlement date for inclusion on the list. Unfortunately, I didn't see a 'negative reply' Red Cross PoW enquiry card, the date of which may have helped.

 

Regards

Chris

[roofuk3]

Thanks for the post Chris. Loads of help thank you. Sorry if I was a bit vague in my post! These are the brothers. I checked the SDGW first then the 1911 cencus. All matched up correct. Also looked for service records & war diaries.

 

I didn't know anything about Alfred, so thank you for the info on him. Very interesting about the brothers! Will check the records for Arthur.

 

I'm going to the town next week so will hopefully find out some more.

 

Thanks for you imput as well Neil.

 

Regards

Andrew

[charlie962]

Andrew, you would be best asking at Fakenham Library if anyone has already done research on the memorial names. I would have thought it quite probable. You should also get access to local newspapers. Do keep us informed of your progress. Charlie

[roofuk3]

I definately will Charlie. Thanks again for your help. much appreciated.

 

Andrew

[PRC]

14 hours ago, roofuk3 said:

I'm going to the town next week so will hopefully find out some more.

 

 

You going up to Norridge then, boi :-)

 

First the bad news. Where they have survived the County Councils collection of the Norfolk newspapers were all micro-filmed back in 1995 by the Church of Latter Day Saints to a very mixed standard. This is the only way you can routinely see them. Originally the films were distributed around the county based on where the publication was printed. A few years back the films were all consolidated into the County Archive at County Hall but by then had been heavily abused and machines were being cannibalised to keep a dwindling stock going. There are a few copies still out there as well as in the County Archive - the Locals Studies section on the third floor of the Forum has the Norwich Mercury, the Eastern Daily Press and Eastern Evening News, and the Norfolk Chronicle for most of the war years and about six working machines. A little birdie told me that a copy of the Dereham and Fakeham Times microfilm was still held out at the Dereham Library, but I've not been out to confirm it. So definately worth ringing both Dereham and Fakenham libraries to see if they can help you with local newspapers, plus as Charlie says, also worth checking if anyone has done work on the names on the memorial - both the one in the town and the one in the church. I'm afraid while it's on my 'to research pile', (pictures having been taken of the town memorial), it's well down the pile.

 

The Church of Latter Day Saints also have their own family history centre in Norwich, on Cumberland Road, but have never used it so can't vouch for the experience. However their copies of the microfilms may be in better nick. The County Library Service also charges £4.50 per day for the privilege of taking pictures. If it's something you really want then usually better to locate the relevant paper and page via the micro-film and then request an image taken from the newspaper original at the County Archive. BTW - be prepared to spend a longtine winding through film - none of this stuff is indexed and then can usually be no rhyme or reason as to when a picture, if any, will turn up.

 

I've checked the stuff I've transcribed from the newspapers held at the Forum. Looks like pictures of Fakenham men mainly crop up in the Norwich Mercury, but going through from January 1917 to the end of November 1918 can't see any of the Mitchell's. Of course they may be there but on pages that were so poorly scanned or damaged that I couldn't salvage any useful information or useable images.

 

I understand the staff at the Norfolk Regimental Museum are very helpful but don't hold a great deal of information to hand, so probably worth contacting them beforehand rather than just turning up.

 

Looking at the Mitchell brothers:-

 

Alfred's service number of 9481 would normally indicate he enlisted in August\early September 1914 but looks from his Medal Index Card that he only received the Victory Medal and British War Medal. That would indicate he didn't go overseas until at least 1916.While that would tie in with the 18 months of overseas service by the time of his hospital admision in September 1917, that doesn't tie in with him being in the army only 2 years at that point. While he could have been 9481 in one of the Territorial Battalions, he would have been renumbered at the start of 1917 with a six digit service number starting with a 2. It's probably worth checking the Service Medal Roll, (available on Ancestry), to see if it has him serving with any of the other Battalions of the Regiment - each would potentially have had its own 9481.

 

Frederick Mitchell - Medal Index card has him as Private 267178 Gloucestershire Regiment previously 5935 in the same Regiment. As well as the Victory Medal and British War Medal he also qualified for something listed as the T.F.W.M., which I'm assuming means the Territorial Force War Medal. As the battalion he was with when he died was a war time only unit, it would seem likely that he was serving with the Territorial Force pre-war. While he could have moved from Norfolk to Gloucestershire between the 1911 Census and the outbreak of the war, the answer comes from the additional information on Soldiers Died in the Great War. This shows him as formerly 843 in the "1st/6th Norfolk Cyclists Regiment."

As it was realised that Cyclists would have a very limited role in the fighting in France & Flanders and that therefore there were far too many unit like the Norfolk Cyclists riding up and down the coast to protect against invasion they were increasingly required to provide men to replace casualties and also significant drafts to make up the numbers in other battalions that were being formed into new Divisions to be sent to the front. Thus it was that men from the 1st /6th Battalion Norfolk Regiment (Cyclist) founds themselves posted to the 2/6th Glosters and 2/7th Worcesters in large numbers, units that would make up the new 61st Division and be sent over to France. Their first action would be the diversionary attack at Fromelles (19th/20th July 1916), intended to draw troops away from the Somme and give the allies some chance of success there after the butchers' bill of the opening days. It was a complete disaster. Going in alongside newly arrived Australian troops, the force tried to take fortified positions after a totally ineffective artillery barrage and were slaughtered. The overall British commander caused near mutiny by refusing to agree to a 24 hour truce to recover the alied dead as he wanted to attack again the next day. It led to calls for the Australians never to fight under British leadership ever again and was regarded as a black day in Australian Military History. See

https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/encyclopedia/fromelles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_at_Fromelles

With no truce, a large number of dead and fearing another attack, the Germans simply dumped the Allied dead in mass graves. A long campaign to find those graves and give the fallen a proper final resting place finally won support of the Australian Government. With forensic science having come such a long way in the intervening years, the scientist were able to use DNA testing to provide positive identification. Of course amongst the men were soldiers of the 61st, (or "Sixty-worst" as it unfairly became known), and there were several newspaper campaigns in Norfolk to get people related to the soldiers who came from the county to give DNA samples.

 

I know Frederick died later it but it's very likely he was there and was one of the survivors.

 

Good luck with your search,

Peter

 

 

 

Edited 11 December , 2018 by PRC

[roofuk3]

Thanks for all that Boi!!!! I'm going to have a ride out to Fakenham one day next week. I'm only a little way across the road in good old Downham. I'll see what I can find out there then hopefuly when I get time I'll head to the city!

 

Fredericks T.F.W.M is numbered 5935. Gloucester Regt. I thought if he was in the Norfolk Cyclist's it would of been named to them? I really don't know how it worked to be honest.

 

I'll let you know how I get on.

 

Thanks again for your message

 

Cheers

Andrew

[RobertL]

  The medals and memorial plaques for all three Brothers were sold at DNW's December 18, 2018 auction.  A very emotive grouping.  Lot 980.  I had made a note about the grouping as I collect casualty groups.  

 

Rob.

[charlie962]

8 hours ago, RobertL said:

were sold at DNW's December 18, 2018

??

 

were there research notes with them ?

[RobertL]

Research notes.  Nothing more than CWGC info, Bttn # and date of death.  Does not add much except that their medals are in existence.  I can't get a link to work to the lot, but if you visit DNW'S website and search "Mitchell"in the archives the lot will come up on the first page.  I did some quick digging around when I originally saw the lot.  I found nothing more (actually, a lot less) than has been presented here.  Best bet.  Local newspaper archives. Three brothers gone, will make the paper.  Good luck.

Rob.

[PRC]

12 hours ago, RobertL said:

  The medals and memorial plaques for all three Brothers were sold at DNW's December 18, 2018 auction. 

 

For those without the benefit of a time machine it was on the 5th December 2018. :-)

https://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/lot-archive/lot.php?department=Medals&lot_id=325252

 

3 hours ago, RobertL said:

  Best bet.  Local newspaper archives. Three brothers gone, will make the paper. 

Sadly not. By 1918 this wasn't uncommon. Certainly as far as the Norwich papers were concerned by this stage of the war the weekly \ twice weekly newspapers were dependant on freelancers and voluntary contributions to fill the columns up as well as I suspect nicking each others news items. The dailies were full of agency news stories - I don't think there is an air crash anywhere in the British Isles that wasn't reported on, quite often in gruesome detail.

 

The only silver lining from a researchers' perspective, if you can call it that, is that the death of a third or fourth son (plus possibly a husband or son-in-law), might trigger pictures of all of them to appear. A lot depends on whether there were pictures and either the family presented them at the local office or an inquisitive freelancer sought the family out in order to get a few lines and then asked if there was pictures available. In some ways you're more likely to get family pictures from the first two years of the war, when the official emphasis seems to have been on celebrating how many members of a particular family were already serving as a way perhaps of shaming others

 

regards,

Peter

[PRC]

Andrew,

 

You may be aware of all this, but I’ll post it here – it will save me time later when I’m researching all the names on the War Memorial.

 

1894 – Birth of Frederick Mitchell. (Later Lance Corporal 267178 2/6th Gloucesters died 2nd December 1917)

 

The birth of a Frederick Mitchell was recorded in the Walsingham District of Norfolk in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1894. His mothers’ maiden name was ‘Raispberry’.

 

The Walsingham Civil Registration District included the Civil Parish of Fakenham up until the end of 1938, when it was abolished and replaced by the Fakenham Civil Registration District.

https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/walsingham.html

The most likely marriage of his parents had occurred in the same District in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1892 when a William James Mitchell married a Susannah Raisbrough.

 

1895 – Birth of Arthur Mitchell. (Later 43272 Norfolk Regiment, survived).

 

The birth of an Arthur James Mitchell was recorded in the Walsingham District in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1895. His mothers’ maiden name was ‘Rasplorough’.

 

Note – there is a death of an Arthur James Mitchell recorded in the Fakenham District in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1974. By this stage the quarterly index of Deaths in England and Wales published by the General Registrars Office also included the date of birth. For that individual the date of birth was the 12th September 1895. It may be a co-incidence but it was certainly within the time span allowed for the civil registration of births, i.e. up to 42 days after the event.

 

1897 – Birth of Alfred Mitchell. (Later 9481 1st Norfolk Regiment, died 21st August 1918).

 

The birth of an Alfred Mitchell was recorded in the Walsingham District in the April to June quarter, (Q2), of 1897. His mothers’ maiden name was ‘Rispberry’.

 

1899 – Birth of William Mitchell. (Later Private G/96975 2nd Middlesex died 27th May 1918)

 

The birth of a William Mitchell was recorded in the Walsingham District of Norfolk in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1899. His mothers’ maiden name was ‘Raspborough’.

 

The baptism of a William Mitchell, born 17th August 1899, took place at St Peter and St Paul, Fakenham on the 14th November 1899. Parents were William, a Groom, and Susannah. The family lived in the parish.

https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5818f93be93790eca32da141?search_id=5c111453f4040b06e50e7b53&ucf=false

Then, as now, you had 42 days after the birth to register the event with the Civil Authorities without facing prosecution and a fine or even imprisonment. Thus the date of birth on the baptismal records and the period of registration are not incompatible.

 

1901 Census of England and Wales

 

The Mitchell family were recorded at Powelle Yard, Oak Street, Fakenham. Head of the household was father William J S Mitchell, aged 30, a General Labourer born Hunstanton, Norfolk. Living with him was his wife Susannah, (aged 28, born Fakenham) and their children Harry, (8), Frederick, (7), Arthur, (6), Alfred, (5) and Willie (2?). All the children were born Fakenham.

 

On the 1901 Norfolk Register of Electors a William James Mitchell is recorded as entitled to vote in Parliamentary, County Council and Civil Parish elections as he was the (male) householder of a dwelling house on Oak Street, Fakenham.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2HYV-W7X

He been on the register there since at least the 1895 edition, (prepared in the autumn of 1894): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2H1X-JJR

 

1911 Census of England and Wales

 

The Mitchells were still living on Oak Street, Fakenham, possibly even in the same building as they were in on the 1901 Census.  Parents William, (43, now working as a Domestic Groom), and Susannah, (36) have been married 18 years and have had 9 children, of which 7 were then still alive. All 7 were still single and living with them. They were:

Harry ‘Jas’……..aged 17………General Labourer

Frederick……….aged 16………Printer (employee)

Arthur………….aged 15………

Alfred………….aged 14………

William ‘Jas’….aged 11………

Albert ‘Edw’….aged 9………..

Leonard Phil…..aged 7……….

 

Couple of things to note. The parents ages have not changed by 10 years since the previous census. As the minimum school leaving age was then 13 the fact that neither Arthur or Alfred are shown in work or education probably means they were unemployed – an indicator of the recession in the Agricultural Industry and other local trades that had been afflicting Norfolk since the 1880’s.

 

William James Mitchell seems to be on every years edition of the Norfolk Registor of Electors since 1901, recorded as the (male) householder of a dwelling house on Oak Street.

1911 Source: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2CMG-QKB

He was still there in 1915.

Source: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2H1W-TDX

Preparation of the Electoral Register was suspended in 1916 and 1917.

 

Other Sources checked.

 

No match for any of the Mitchell brothers on Picture Norfolk, the County Image Archive.

 

No obvious Soldiers Will or Civil Probate for Frederick Mitchell

 

The Government Probate Department holds a Soldiers Will for 9481 Alfred Mitchell who died on the 21st August 1918.

Source: https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Wills?Surname=Mitchell&SurnameGrants=Mitchell&FirstName=Alfred&FirstNameGrants=Alfred&YearOfDeath=1918&YearOfDeathGrants=1918&AdvancedSearch=True&IsGrantSearch=False&IsCalendarSearch=False#soldiers

(Note – Soldiers’ Will are seldom good value for money – they normally just state "I leave everything to my mother \ wife", and so all you end up with is an expensive autograph and even that isn’t guaranteed. The best guide is probably the Army Register of Soldiers Effects and the columns relating to how any balance of pay and the War Gratuity was disposed of.  If it shows the money going to a Sole Legatee then you are probably looking at a “I leave everything to” scenario.)

 

No obvious Soldiers Will or Civil Probate for William Mitchell.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

PS - I'm sure you're aware but the names on the Civic War Memorial are done by year.

[roofuk3]

Hi Peter

 

Thank you so much for all the information you've sent me. To be honest I've learnt a lot from your message. I'm still a novice regarding research. Everyday is a step in the right direction though!

 

I bought the boy's medals & plaques from DNW auction. There was no research documents with them.  I collect to brothers from Norfolk. I've only got a small collection but it's a special one.

 

Thanks again for your message.

 

Andrew

[roofuk3]

7 hours ago, charlie962 said:

??

 

were there research notes with them ?

Hi Charlie

 

There was nothing with them at all!!! The basic info was written inside the frame they came in. Nothing else.

 

Cheers

Andrew

[charlie962]

Ah, so it was you. Let us know what more you find out nevertheless. Charlie

[roofuk3]

Will do Charlie. Thanks for your message.

 

Andrew

[roofuk3]

On 11/12/2018 at 11:17, charlie962 said:

Andrew, you would be best asking at Fakenham Library if anyone has already done research on the memorial names. I would have thought it quite probable. You should also get access to local newspapers. Do keep us informed of your progress. Charlie

Hello Charlie

 

Managed to get over to Fakenham the othe day. No luck to be honest! Went to the library, a nice lady had a look in the back room but nothing. Then went to the District Council Office. Asked a man there but  when I mentioned the war memorial his face went completly blank! Then went to the church. No one in there so couldn't ask anyone. Had a ride to the local museum of Gas & Light. Shut til the spring. Never mind will just have to wait until spring time!!!!

 

Regrds

Andrew

[roofuk3]

On 12/12/2018 at 18:46, roofuk3 said:

Hi Peter

 

Thank you so much for all the information you've sent me. To be honest I've learnt a lot from your message. I'm still a novice regarding research. Everyday is a step in the right direction though!

 

I bought the boy's medals & plaques from DNW auction. There was no research documents with them.  I collect to brothers from Norfolk. I've only got a small collection but it's a special one.

 

Thanks again for your message.

 

Andrew

Hello Peter

 

Finally got over to Fakenham. Not a sucessful trip! Tried the Library, Distict Council and the church!!! Nothing though. Had a ride to the local museum but is closed until spring. Never mind.

 

Hope your well

Andrew

[charlie962]

10 hours ago, roofuk3 said:

. No luck to be honest!

I'm suprised but I don't know Fakenham. Clearly a long term research project.

Charlie