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Possible early RNAS - Warships images - Pilot named MURRAY - Help needed

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if you give more details on year and place of death for his grandson we may be able to trace a first name for the grandfather?

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On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 12:39, Martin Feledziak said:

This is the last item from the MURRAY exhibits.

As you can see it appears a most unlikely collection of characters.


The man seated with the Goggles is the subject.

The goggles worn are not the same as those above post 20


The helmet being worn by the subject has a resemblance to a French Roold Helmet.


I would love to hear any suggestions.







This image seems to me to depict certain service 'types' - on the left a 'squaddie', right, an 'upright major', seated, an 'aviator' and a 'general', and in the centre, for some bizarre reason, a 'footman/butler'!    An amateur dramatic production springs to mind.  

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Martin Feledziak
3 hours ago, pete-c said:

amateur dramatic production


I agree Pete-C, the Butler is well out of place


12 hours ago, Madmeg said:

if you give more details on year and place of death for his grandson we may be able to trace a first name for the grandfather?



The Grandson was in his late 60's and died at home in Hull 4 years ago so around 2014.

his full name being Neil Paul MURRAY.

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Ok I have found two possible births- 1936 and 1951 for the grandson- following up the 1951 birth only and only looking in the Hull/Sculcoates district I get a possible name for his GF as Albert H Murray- there are a couple of Albert H(enry) possibles in 1911 but they would be quite young for WW1- one is born 1900 and one in 1902.

I was hoping to find  reference to the family in the 1939 index but nothing is showing up in a quick index search (I don't have full access).

I'll keep working.

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So I have found Martin Stanley Murray (known RNAS and only RFC/RNAS Murray born in YRK according to TNA) in 1911 - in Middlesborough (but b Sculcoates) (right at the opposite end of the county) with his (apparently) much married mother Anna Maria and other siblings- trouble is I'm not convinced that he is the grandfather of Neil P.


Neil P's father was (99% certain) Harry. I can't find a record for a marriage for Martin Stanley. Or a death record but freebmd only goes up to the 1980's.


I found a couple of possibles for Harry- one was born in Sculcoates in 1930 (this is the son of Albert H and wife nee Johnson)- he would have been only 17 at time of marriage of NP's parents, the other option was born in Middlesborough 1924- mother's maiden name is shown as Murray so possibly illegitimate (apologies) . So it could well be that granddad's surname was not Murray at all (sorry). I would suggest getting  a marriage cert for Neil P's parents to get their details and then (if that ruled out Harry b 1930) maybe a birth cert for Harry b 1924 which would confirm mother's name at the least and might give clues to his father's name (e.g. if they later married after Harry's birth (although the fact that he was known by his mother's surname rather implies not if that is the case))


The only marriage for a Murray to a Murray in Middlesborough/Hull/Sculcoates I can find is in 1903 in Middlesborough- possibly a bit early to be parents of Harry b either 1924 or 1930! Plus Patrick does not seem to have been in the RNAS (there is a P Murray in the RFC)


Another option is he is grandad on the female side - which would give you the surname Johnson if Harry b 1930 was Neil P's father - or bring us back to Murray (but not Martin Stanley) if Harry b 1924 was his father.

Edited by Madmeg
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Martin Feledziak
7 hours ago, Madmeg said:

Martin Stanley Murray


Thanks very much for all of the research you have undertaken.

I am now of the opinion that whoever Neil's Grandfather was, he was unlikely to have been a pioneer in flying from ships.


But anyone searching for him in the future will probably hit on this page.

I am sure that airing the photographs has been a  worthwhile activity too.


I think it is now time to close off this topic.

Many thanks


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