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Martin Feledziak

Possible early RNAS - Warships images - Pilot named MURRAY - Help needed

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Martin Feledziak

This area of the Great war is not one that I am familiar with so any tips would be well received.

The Gentleman indicated by the arrow on the photograph below is believed to have been one of the earlier aviators who flew from Navy ships.

 

He is thought to have originated from the Hull area and his last surname being MURRAY.

There are no known surviving family.

 

This photograph came from his Grandson Neil MURRAY who sadly died a number of years ago.

So other than the suggestion that he was a pioneer in the fledgling Navy Air Service there is not much else to assist.

 

Perhaps the insignia worn on the sleeve could point to other options.

 

Many Thanks

Martin.

 

Murray.jpg.6d027f05e278d9eca42777e6dc0ef663.jpg

Edited by Martin Feledziak

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ARABIS

The sleeve badge denotes an Artisan [trained craftsman] of the Royal Naval Air Service. Nothing in the photo suggests that he was a flyer but who knows?

 

ARABIS.

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horatio2

There appears to be only one Hull-born MURRAY with an RNAS 'F' official number:-  http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6849412

Enlisting in early February 1918, he only served two months in the RNAS before transferring to the RAF as 249495. Qualified for the British War Medal only in the rating of Air Mechanic 2nd Grade RNAS.

 

 

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Martin Feledziak
29 minutes ago, ARABIS said:

[trained craftsman]

 

3 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

re-mustered into the RAF

 

Thanks Arabis and horatio 2.

 

I know there is not much to go on . Here he is again third from right, upper.

 

Muray.jpg.998db047de32ec22e44ecfbb6eaba40c.jpg

 

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horatio2

This image adds no further clues but it has the look of a newly-formed class of RNAS ratings under training and all looking very smart in new uniforms.

In the case of the above MURRAY, he did his initial five weeks training at RNAS Tregantle in Cornwall.

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Martin Feledziak

Thanks - I see the badge now.

I have done a lot of searching today and found nothing.

The below I just found looking for artisan.

 

To be fair the individual in the images looks much older than 18.

BUT

in any event if he was a Pilot what sort of badge would he be displaying.

I am beginning to think that my man was not a pilot.

 

 

badge.jpg.ed7d94b0cc04db42122b710530e7a11b.jpg

 

 

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horatio2

The RNAS did not have rating pilots in WW1 (though they did have a few pre-war). All RNAS pilots in WW1 were commissioned or warrant officers.

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Martin Feledziak
4 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

were commissioned or warrant officers

 

That is fairly straight forward then. 

If I understand correctly can I safely say

 

 

The images do not support the theory that the subject was a pilot.

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ARABIS
15 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

The RNAS did not have rating pilots in WW1 (though they did have a few pre-war). All RNAS pilots in WW1 were commissioned or warrant officers.

 

 Interesting, so are these badges pre WW1?

 

RNAS.jpg.ea4d56712369396edf08a7240f8e4333.jpg

 

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horatio2

38 RN ratings and RM ORs qualified as pilots before WW1 so their pilot badges were awarded pre-war. They were worn thereafter even though none was employed as a rating/OR pilot after the outbreak of hostilities.

Airship coxswains are an unknown quantity (to me).

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Martin Feledziak

Thanks for your guidance. I can see it is a broad topic but now I feel  more confident That the subject does not match up to his Grandson’s information.

 

there are three other photographs, and an item,  included in the collection. 

 

a set of goggles

some warships

a bizarre group photo.

 

however given the response to the first two images

I am inclined to check with the current keeper before disclosing.

 

Having said that

 

I don’t think any of the remaining photographs would assist with the given circumstances.

 

Edited by Martin Feledziak

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Martin Feledziak

Dissapointed, I have just done a little searching on head gear.

Just going to add this with emphasis on the warren safety helmet.

 

hat.jpg.3d496c28253a12bc1acbbb2c786e1423.jpg

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ARABIS
1 hour ago, horatio2 said:

38 RN ratings and RM ORs qualified as pilots before WW1 so their pilot badges were awarded pre-war. They were worn thereafter even though none was employed as a rating/OR pilot after the outbreak of hostilities.

Airship coxswains are an unknown quantity (to me).

 

Thank you horatio2.

Attached is a photo of a group of ratings. The man standing rear left is wearing the Airship Coxswains badge of an eagle above an eight spoked ships wheel.

A.C..jpg.2989104b2b3994fdb7405f87c5cbd6bb.jpg

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Martin Feledziak
13 hours ago, ARABIS said:

ratings

 

Great Photograph thanks very much.

 

I have added two images of the warships from the Murray exhibits.

There is no other information just anything we can make of them.

 

Again no answers just more questions.

BUT

nice photographs.

 

901516600_ships1.jpg.cb3064d3e27445f2a59d93319e471d07.jpg

 

1518765363_ships2.jpg.7c010cfa8f2d95ac28068f58de30a198.jpg

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Martin Feledziak
11 minutes ago, Martin Bennitt said:

US dreadnoughts

 

Thanks Martin,

 

I have no clue on any of this, ships are well out of my understanding,

The trouble is I do not have any answer to give.

 

I have been looking at dreadnoughts thinking I might pick out some feature to identify a name - but there are loads of them and they all look the same. I did not even know America had them too.

 

 

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Martin Feledziak
29 minutes ago, seaJane said:

Fleet Air Arm

 

Good Idea SeaJane.

 

I did think about that but with such a poor start position I thought I would chance forum knowledge first.

I did run the surname through their roll of honor but I don't even know if he died as a result of his service.

 

here are the hits.

 

364193776_FleetAirArm.jpg.b423c007f8d9a58e253edce6fdf222ea.jpg

 

 

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Martin Feledziak

These are the Goggles - they do have the broad arrow and TRIPLEX marks.

 

48357995_906873469646445_1351131913150005248_n.jpg.337d2c8ac15d12d73e324057a5fb2c2c.jpg

48187039_1718295671608331_6368392552332132352_n.jpg.1377ab6dee867e633ef7e737063158a6.jpg

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RobertBr

Martin

 

USS Texas an American Dreadnought is moored at the San Jacinto Battleground State Historic Site. Wikipedia has a picture of her  form WW1 with similar masts.

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MerchantOldSalt

I think the same ships appear in both photographs, and would say that the American ship is either USS Texas or New York and the ship behind is one of the British Indefatigable Type either HMS Indefatigable, New Zealand or Australia I think all five ships served with the Grand Fleet in the North Sea.

 

Tony

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Martin Feledziak
2 hours ago, RobertBr said:

USS Texas

 

1 hour ago, MerchantOldSalt said:

USS Texas or New York

 

Thanks RobertBr and MerchantOldSalt.

 

Well spotted - It does look like the same ship just moved to a different angle.

I will now go and look at your suggestions.

 

Thanks very much.

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Martin Feledziak

This is the last item from the MURRAY exhibits.

As you can see it appears a most unlikely collection of characters.

 

The man seated with the Goggles is the subject.

The goggles worn are not the same as those above post 20

 

The helmet being worn by the subject has a resemblance to a French Roold Helmet.

 

I would love to hear any suggestions.

 

 

1199353356_Bizarrefruit.jpg.242afc3d296277fa02a2d4054f526e1b.jpg

 

 

Edited by Martin Feledziak

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