Malcolm12hl Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 I would be very grateful if anybody could tell me the meaning of the rank Petty Officer (N.S.). I think it has something to do with seniority, but I am not sure what the initials N.S. stand for, or what the qualification for them was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 In 1907 the rating structure for the RN Seaman and Communications branches were revised. The classes of petty officer (eg PO 2nd Class) were abolished and pay rates amended accordingly. My understanding is that these changes were not applied retrospectively and Petty Officers (Old System (OS)) and (New System (NS)) served at the same time. Others may have more detail on these changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm12hl Posted 3 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 December , 2018 Thank you Horatio. If you have time, please have a look at the service record of Petty Officer ERNEST WILLIAM ABRAM 167361 (whose record triggered my original question - and who appears as P.O. (N.S.) on the casualty list of H.M.S. HAWKE, torpedoed and sunk on 15 October 1914). He became a Petty Officer 2nd Class on 18 August 1905, and a Petty Officer 1st Class on 12 February 1906. These ratings are in line with the Old System, but his rating does not change to Petty Officer (N.S.) until 13 October 1910, several years after the change of system. The remarks section shows him "passing educationally" for Petty Officer on 3 March 1908 and then "professionally for P.O. (N.S.)" on 13 October 1910 (the date on which the new rank appears on his service record). This seems to suggest that some extra form of qualification was required, although it might just have been the "over 3 years" service noted under the new rating on the service record. I would be very grateful for your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 3 December , 2018 Share Posted 3 December , 2018 I do not have a detailed explanation for transition between OS and NS and any extra courses/examinations necessary. There are some details on this link to KR&AI (1913) but it does not provide all the answers. http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/KR&AI_1913_Vol_II/Seaman.html Clear as mud in places but it may help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm12hl Posted 3 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 December , 2018 Thank you Horatio, it does help a lot - even if I have to deploy all my years of post-secondary education to make sense of some of the Regulations' more Byzantine provisions. I had not realised just how much power the Captain had over quite senior promotions, and how they were dependent on vacancies arising. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawryleslie Posted 16 September , 2020 Share Posted 16 September , 2020 The Museum of the Royal Navy states that NS means either None-seagoing or New System. Horatio2 has it spot on. https://www.nmrn.org.uk/research/service-record-abbreviations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 16 September , 2020 Share Posted 16 September , 2020 NS can mean all sorts of things, ‘non-substantive’, ‘non-seagoing’ or in this case ‘new system’. Clearly this man had already reached PO rate (under the old system) before being recategorised as PO(NS) - which would have required completion of additional training. No evidence he was not fit for seagoing, or that he was only a local acting PO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawryleslie Posted 17 September , 2020 Share Posted 17 September , 2020 (edited) Categorising a rating unfit for sea-going would probably not be designated as N.S. The military had a medical categorising system for example the army categorised soldiers from A to D as follows A Able to march, see to shoot, hear well and stand active service conditions. Subcategories: Al Fit for dispatching overseas, as regards physical and mental health, and training A2 As Al, except for training A3 Returned Expeditionary Force men, ready except for physical condition A4 Men under 19 who would be Al or A2 when aged 19 B Free from serious organic diseases, able to stand service on lines of communication in France, or in garrisons in the tropics. Subcategories: Bl Able to march 5 miles, see to shoot with glasses, and hear well B2 Able to walk 5 miles, see and hear sufficiently for ordinary purposes B3 Only suitable for sedentary work C Free from serious organic diseases, able to stand service in garrisons at home. Subcategories: Cl Able to march 5 miles, see to shoot with glasses, and hear well C2 Able to walk 5 miles, see and hear sufficiently for ordinary purposes C3 Only suitable for sedentary work D Unfit but could be fit within 6 months. Subcategories: Dl Regular RA,RE, infantry in Command Depots D2 Regular RA,RE, infantry in Regimental Depots D3 Men in any depot or unit awaiting treatment Would have thought that the Navy had a similar system. The only time I have seen N.S. meaning non-seagoing was in the early days of WRNS serving on ships in 90s when some WRNS who were still serving but hadn’t signed up as sea-going were categorised N.S. During my naval career fitness for seagoing was categorised P2 meaning fully fit for seagoing duties or P4, P7 or P8 meaning medically not deployable. Maybe this was used in WW1? I’m sure there’s a more knowledgable forum pal who can expand on WW1 RN Medical categories. Edited 17 September , 2020 by Lawryleslie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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