Location of 1914 "CCS" at L’Ecole de Jeanne D’Arc

[Nick1914]

Dear All, I have been going through early BEF 1914 medical/casualty records.  One medical facility is described as based at L'Ecole de Jeanne D'Arc and is in operation from around 19th August to 30th August 1914. Typically officers were shown as treated for between 1- 10 days before released to duty or evacuated back to UK around 29/30 August on HMHS St David.

 

To my understanding this looks like an early Casualty Clearing Station if not actually in name and set-up during deployment/mobilisation and before Le Cateau(26th Aug) where quite a few of the casualties appear to have come from.

 

Could anyone confirm the exact LOCATION of the above treatment facility.  From one casualty I have a suggestion that this might be St Quentin which would be in the line of retreat with evacuations on the 29th/30th August just before the town would be overrun by the enemy prior to Villers-Cotterets?

 

Many thanks, Nick

[sotonmate]

There were 4 CCS set-ups in France in Aug 1914;CCS1 at St Omer,2 at Bailleul, and 3 and 5 at Hazebrouck. Might need a read of the early entries in these War Diaries to see if any set up in the school. Alternatively there may have been a Field Ambulance setup, I have seen them in such places.

[JulianR]

There is a Medical History of the War by Major-General MacPherson which might well tell you more.  It was reprinted by Naval and Military Press, but is I believe on line.

 

Julian

[sotonmate]

Further to my #2 note here, just browsing a likely Field Ambulance Group for 2 Division. The War Diary for 5 Field Ambulance (WO95/1337/1) shows that it is obviously on the hoof due to the situation, uses an Abbey at AURIGNY for patients (27 Aug) but also later same day passes through a town named GUISE with casualties carried. In a previous search prior to the War Diary I found a current school website in GUISE named  as you have above. May or may not be connected.

WD for 4 FA, also 2 Div, (WO95/1336/1) has two refs to  moving casualties to Brit Red Cross Hospitals at  ST GOBAIN (where patients put on railway for dispersal,some Officer patient names (might match yours ?) and HAUTMONT, so these were certainly quickly into place as non-military.

Edited 2 December , 2018 by sotonmate

[TEW]

14 FA were also 'on the hoof' at this time but still collecting wounded & sick. With no set procedure in place they were discharging men to a variety of civil hospitals, not all run by RAMC. Or to any passing motor convoy that would take them or were leaving wounded in villages.

TEW

[TEW]

A google search brings up some possibilities for L'Ecole de Jeanne D'Arc. I've looked through some medical diaries and DMS 1st Army issued orders 24/8/1914 to all 6 Casualty Clearing Hospitals in St Quentin to be ready to move out at a moments notice. These were Nos. 1-6. 1,2,4 & 5 were in Aulnoye 25/8/1914 and Rouen 28/8/1914 helping unload wounded and stores from trains.

 

Generally they don't seem to be functioning as Casualty Clearing Hospitals, they are helping staff larger hospitals, providing food & blankets for wounded arriving by train.

 

All I found mentioned was a Rest Station in Creil and another in St Severn [sic] and a convalescent camp in Bruyeres.

 

However, there is an Ecole de Jeanne D'Arc in Aulnoye which could be a contender.

 

Nick, any clues as to which early BEF 1914 medical/casualty records you've been going through?

TEW

[Nick1914]

Dear All, many thanks for all your much appreciated ideas.  I think you will agree a complex area and not well researched at the moment.  War Diary references are also most helpful.

 

My use of CCS may have been "misleading" but certainly the admissions were short/temporary before shipping back to UK hospitals......particularly The Queen Alexandra Military at Millbank, London.

 

Sotonmate thanks for the suggestions on Guise....a little South of Etreux(very/too close to the fighting??)  and east of St Quentin.  The latter had the advantage of a rail connection if my memory of the Retreat serves me correctly.

 

TEW - the records I am looking at are British Armed Forces First World War Soldiers Medical Records - on Find My Past.

 

Julian, thanks for the book reference I'll put it on my Naval & Military Shopping List for Christmas!

 

14th FA seems to also have good preserved records - I was looking yesterday at a page of these covering a period from 24th August until well into the Battle of the Aisne in mid-September.  This unit was apparently based at Nanteuil........I haven't yet had time to figure out where this is.   When you think the total Retreat was circa 200miles the scope for locations between Belgium and the Meuse is quite large.

 

Hope others can help add more to the jigsaw.

 

Best, Nick

 

PS Sotonmate.....I know you are very interested in shipping from your help in previous posts.......HMHS St David seems to have been an important ferry for casualties to the UK...a former Wales to Ireland ferry.

[TEW]

As it happens I downloaded the first A&D book for 14 FA and compared it to their diary. Some discrepancies going on.

TEW

[Nick1914]

Someone kindly sent me a useful Google link to the Guise map for those interested.  I also noted the French battle of Guise-St Quentin was on 29th August.......getting a bit busy in that zone?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/02120+Guise,+France/@49.8836666,3.3393024,10z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x47e82b97168d34e9:0x40af13e8169e870!8m2!3d49.898014!4d3.625057

 

Best , Nick

 

[TEW]

Have to confess Guise does look like a contender but had wondered about officers being retain for 1-10 days between 19th & 30th Aug 1914. Would not have been the place to be hanging around at that time.

 

My suggestion of Aulnoye is not looking good, most of the CCS that arrived there set up train loading points and promptly got out of there.

St Quentin.

25/8/1914. 6 CCS Hospital formed at Ecole Maternelle, later moved to lycée.

26/8/1914.

3 CCS took over a school near the Station as a Hospital.

3 & 6 CCS took the lycée buildings as a Hospital. (Same place?)

 

Was hoping to browse MH106 and find the entries! pages faling to load at present.

TEW

 

[TEW]

Nick,

Sorry couldn't help being nosey and found the MH106 record you've been looking at.

 

Front cover does show that 2nd GH were set up in L'Ecole de Jeanne D'Arc, Victoria Avenue, Havre.

TEW

[Nick1914]

Dear Members & TEW, many thanks for all your efforts. Outside the Forum I was given the answer which TEW is quite correct was HAVRE.

 

By way of a trail and credits I am told that the clue was via the Chief Matron's War Diary in the late Sue Lights - Scarlett Finders website.  This led to the No 2 General Hospital War Diary(WO/95/4074/4).  Here the entry for 16th August 1914 describes the setting up of 2 hospital sites at L'Ecole Jean Macé and L'Ecole de Jeanne D'Arc the latter in the Sanvic district of the town.

 

It seems that No2 General Hospital (at least at the start) was a multi-site set-up including:

• L'Ecole Jean Macé
• L'Ecole de Jeanne D'Arc(officers hospital)
• Gare Maritime
• Regatta/Casino

Adverse comments were made about the initial sanitary arrangements at Jeanne D'Arc and most officers were subsequently evacuated on hospital ships on 29th/30th August.

 

I speculate that the facility was therefore perhaps short lived as located at Sanvic in the middle of Havre itself.

 

Thanks to everyone for their interest.....it has been an enjoyable journey which had quite a few of us going up and down the line of Retreat but forgetting the obvious to look South West!

 

Best, Nick