NYD Sprain

[rolt968]

I am very grateful to Mike (Skipman) for pointing me towards the 31 Ambulance Train Registers  (FWR and FMP) in the thread about William Bruce:

William Bruce was transferred from Hazelbrouk to Boulogne on 31 Ambulance Train on 29 June 1917 suffering from N[ot] Y[et] D[iagnosed] Sprain.

 

Could this by any chance have been the beginning (as yet undiagnosed) of tuberculosis of the hip?

 

(Tuberculosis of the hip was one of the causes of his death on 11 November 1918. He was discharged as unfit - cause not known on 14 November 1917.)

 

RM

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

It's possible that if he had a painful hip in 1917 they may have put it down as a 'sprain'.

How do his medical notes pan out?

[rolt968]

15 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

It's possible that if he had a painful hip in 1917 they may have put it down as a 'sprain'.

How do his medical notes pan out?

Unfortunately, what I have given you is virtually all I know.

 

He was discharged on 14 November 1917 because of ill health (Para B 1) but I have not found out what the illness/ disablement was

He died in a Sanatorium on 11 November 1918 of phthisis pulmonalis and tubercular disease of the hip.

 

RM

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

1 hour ago, rolt968 said:

Unfortunately, what I have given you is virtually all I know.

 

I suppose we can never know for certain, but it's possible.

[rolt968]

 

1 hour ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

 

I suppose we can never know for certain, but it's possible.

 

Thanks.

 

In the last few days I have acquired much more information about him than I ever expected to find for my own war memorial research - not least the confirmation that the man on the war memorial is indeed who I thought he was.

 

However he is a potential "in from the cold" and unfortunately the missing information would be necessary for a submission to CWGC.

I'll hope that something else turns up.

RM

Edited 29 November , 2018 by rolt968

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

4 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

However he is a potential "in from the cold"

 

That's a shame.

The link although suspicious, and entirely plausible, is still only a possibility, and for that reason, sadly, won't be enough to convince the CWGC.

[TEW]

Must have been quite serious, Hazebrouck was the location for a CCS group and yet when taken in by 31 AT his condition was still undiagnosed so the CCS failed to identify the condition he was admitted for.

 

I just checked other men on the same AT31 list who went from Hazebrouck - Boulougne on the same journey and 7521 Ditchfield went from Boulougne to 32 Stationary H, Wimereux and eventually back to unit.

 

I also had a look at the FMP Sick & Wounded list in your other post and 12733 Henderson has a record on FMP for his illness 4/8/1917 - 9/8/1917. He is on HA list No. 12672 for admission to Le Touquet. HA lists are for men admitted to hospitals in France. Henderson was evacuated back to the UK 9/8/1917.

 

So it's possible that the fragmented list on FMP is List HA 12672 and if so then all the men notified to Perth office with the exception of Whitelaw were admitted to a hospital in France, either for a day or 2 or perhaps for longer.

 

You could try running the other names through FMP and see if two sets of records pop up, one will be the fragment the other a fuller history.

TEW

[rolt968]

9 hours ago, TEW said:

Must have been quite serious, Hazebrouck was the location for a CCS group and yet when taken in by 31 AT his condition was still undiagnosed so the CCS failed to identify the condition he was admitted for.

 

I just checked other men on the same AT31 list who went from Hazebrouck - Boulougne on the same journey and 7521 Ditchfield went from Boulougne to 32 Stationary H, Wimereux and eventually back to unit.

 

I also had a look at the FMP Sick & Wounded list in your other post and 12733 Henderson has a record on FMP for his illness 4/8/1917 - 9/8/1917. He is on HA list No. 12672 for admission to Le Touquet. HA lists are for men admitted to hospitals in France. Henderson was evacuated back to the UK 9/8/1917.

 

So it's possible that the fragmented list on FMP is List HA 12672 and if so then all the men notified to Perth office with the exception of Whitelaw were admitted to a hospital in France, either for a day or 2 or perhaps for longer.

 

You could try running the other names through FMP and see if two sets of records pop up, one will be the fragment the other a fuller history.

TEW

Thank you. You have suggested a couple of useful threads to follow.

RM

[Robert Dunlop]

I can't quite tell from the thread [apologies] but did Private Stewart ever return to active duty after the August admission? It is highly likely that the hip pain was the first manifestation of his tubercular disease. TB often has a protracted course, though my grandfather died of widespread TB within weeks of symptoms. I presume his hip was x-rayed but it is quite possible that nothing was seen initially.

 

Robert

[rolt968]

3 hours ago, Robert Dunlop said:

I can't quite tell from the thread [apologies] but did Private Stewart ever return to active duty after the August admission? It is highly likely that the hip pain was the first manifestation of his tubercular disease. TB often has a protracted course, though my grandfather died of widespread TB within weeks of symptoms. I presume his hip was x-rayed but it is quite possible that nothing was seen initially.

 

Robert

Thank you.

 

Unfortunately all I know  definitely is:

He was discharged on 14 November 1917 because of ill health (Para B 1) but I have not found out what the illness/ disablement was

He died in a Sanatorium on 11 November 1918 of phthisis pulmonalis and tubercular disease of the hip.

 

RM

 

 

[Robert Dunlop]

Thanks, RM. The fact that he was discharged with 'ill health' in November also supports the hypothesis that TB was causing the hip problem in mid-1917. The course of events is entirely consistent with a chronic TB infection. There is a clear distinction, in many cases, between the effects of local disease versus the systemic effects of a major infection. The latter includes weight loss, fevers, night sweats, loss of appetite, loss of energy, etc. These effects of TB are not dependent on the site of infection/s so much as the high volume of disease. The hip infection may have been the first clinically significant activation site. The local effects of the bacillus will have caused bone and/or joint damage, associated with pain. If there was no significant disease elsewhere at the time then the general effects would not be present or noticeable. As the months went by, the volume of disease elsewhere will have increased to the point where 'ill health' occurred.

 

Robert

[rolt968]

56 minutes ago, Robert Dunlop said:

Thanks, RM. The fact that he was discharged with 'ill health' in November also supports the hypothesis that TB was causing the hip problem in mid-1917. The course of events is entirely consistent with a chronic TB infection. There is a clear distinction, in many cases, between the effects of local disease versus the systemic effects of a major infection. The latter includes weight loss, fevers, night sweats, loss of appetite, loss of energy, etc. These effects of TB are not dependent on the site of infection/s so much as the high volume of disease. The hip infection may have been the first clinically significant activation site. The local effects of the bacillus will have caused bone and/or joint damage, associated with pain. If there was no significant disease elsewhere at the time then the general effects would not be present or noticeable. As the months went by, the volume of disease elsewhere will have increased to the point where 'ill health' occurred.

 

Robert

Thank You, Robert,

I had wondered if something like that was possible.

RM