Shiny Posted 21 November , 2018 Share Posted 21 November , 2018 (edited) Morning All, I've found an article in the Newcastle Journal dated 13th August 1917 as follows: Mrs Carruthers, 35 Noble Street, Newcastle has been informed that her husband, Pte W Carruthers has been gassed and severely wounded and is in hospital in Netley. He is a son of Mrs Carruthers, 161 Meldon Street, Newcastle. I think this is my GG Uncle William Issac Carruthers, born around 1894 in Newcastle Upon Tyne as the Meldon Street address is his address on the 1911 census. The thing is I've searched a few times and can't find any definate military details for him, the closest possible I can find is 31/427 Pte W Carruthers, 31st Bn Northumberland Fusiliers who became 203383 Pte W Carruthers, KOYLI. There is a pension record on Fold 3 relating to Pte Carruthers but I can't get at that until they do another free access thing, so I'm wondering if anyone can find any details about either William himself or the soldier above so I can rule him in or out. Thanks for the help, Michael Edited 21 November , 2018 by Shiny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil 2242 Posted 21 November , 2018 Share Posted 21 November , 2018 33 minutes ago, Shiny said: the closest possible I can find is 31/427 Pte W Carruthers, 31st Bn Northumberland Fusiliers who became 203383 Pte W Carruthers, KOYLI. On what basis is this man the closest possible? He's certainly a possible, but more than that....... If you consider your GGUncle's middle initial, there's a MIC to a William I Carruthers of the Border Regiment. Also worth checking I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 21 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2018 Hi Neil, You are correct about looing at other options and I looked at quite a few other possibles yesterday. If I remember rightly I found a little bit more about the Border Regiment soldier and it said he had been a miner whereas my relative had been a waiter, I think that was why I ruled him out. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 21 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2018 Hi All, I've had a bit of help which has confirmed that this is my relative. I've managed to get his MIC but that is it. Can anyone tell me anything more about him? Thanks, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1959 Posted 21 November , 2018 Share Posted 21 November , 2018 Can you just confirm which man you have confirmed as your relative - Border or NF/KOYLI, Assume the latter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 November , 2018 Share Posted 21 November , 2018 1 minute ago, Mark1959 said: Can you just confirm which man you have confirmed as your relative - Border or NF/KOYLI, Assume the latter It's the NF/KOYLI man. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1959 Posted 21 November , 2018 Share Posted 21 November , 2018 War Office Daily List No. 5361 under his latter KOYLI number. Date of list 11/9/17. So must be the gassing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 21 November , 2018 Share Posted 21 November , 2018 2 hours ago, Shiny said: There is a pension record on Fold 3 relating to Pte Carruthers but I can't get at that until they do another free access thing, so I'm wondering if anyone can find any details about either William himself or the soldier above so I can rule him in or out. You need to be more specific. If I search Fold 3 for a Pension record of William Carruthers, I get a list of 230 odd possibilities - click The only record that I can see they have for the NF/KOYLI is his MIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 21 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2018 (edited) Hi All, Sorry for the confusion, yes it is 31/427 Pte W Carruthers, 31st Bn Northumberland Fusiliers who became 203383 Pte W Carruthers, KOYLI that has now been confirmed as being my relative, William Issac Carruthers. I have edited the title accordingly. I'm told the fold 3 record contains an address which matches his and confirms a discharge date of 27th of Dec 1917 due to his being gassed. All I have managed to find on Ancestry is the MIC for him, presumably there should be a medal roll and a record for a Silver War Badge for him somewhere. 54 minutes ago, Mark1959 said: War Office Daily List No. 5361 Mark I haven't seen that before, where do I find the war lists? Thanks for the help everyone. Michael Edited 21 November , 2018 by Shiny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1959 Posted 21 November , 2018 Share Posted 21 November , 2018 (edited) FWR have transcripted records. However, they can be seen on the British Newspaper Archive and on the FMP version of the BNA. However searching by name not very good with these lists on either BNA or FMP. So I end up restricting the date criteria and then some other search word to get the right list. The FWR record giving me the month to look at. Would have expected a SWB record for him but cannot find one. Edited 21 November , 2018 by Mark1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 21 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2018 Thanks Mark, I have a BNA subscription at the minute so I'll see if I can find it. I'm pleased it's not just me, with the SWB. He's proving to be quite elusive in general. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 22 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 November , 2018 Hi All, I've had a good look at his medal roll now and it says he was part of the 4th Yorks LI. I presume that should be the 1/4th Yorks LI as the rest of the men on the page are described as that but as usual I'm struggling to find a war diary on Ancestry. Can anyone help me find the war diary for the 1/4th Yorks LI please? Thanks, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 22 November , 2018 Share Posted 22 November , 2018 Hi Michael, On Ancestry the diary starts here. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 22 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 November , 2018 Chris you are a legend, thank you very much. I don't know why I struggle finding the diaries so much but sometimes I really do. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 22 November , 2018 Share Posted 22 November , 2018 Hi Michael, The trick is when you use the drop downs on the right hand side of the Ancestry search page, if you can't find the Bn diary under the Regiment name, they are probably bundled together under a Brigade record. Select the 'Various (Infantry Brigades, Xth Division)' in the first box, and Xth Division in the second. Doing that for your example, and scrolling down you get... Knowing the Brigade, you can ignore the ones that aren't relevant, and the one for the right Brigade but that is for the 'Headquarters'. In your case that leaves you with the last entry shown. That's where your diary was. You usually have to scroll through the Brigade diary to find where the records for your specific unit starts though. If you need to establish the Brigade in the first instance, I tend to do that one of two ways. The first is to go to the National Archives search page, and using the specific unit you get the unit hierarchy As an alternative you can go to the Long, Long trail, and drill down on the Regiment, and pick up the Battalion from there. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 22 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 November , 2018 Thank you so much for the help Chris, I really appreciate it. I have another diary I want to try and find so I'll have a go tomorrow and see if I can do it. Thanks for taking the time to explain it and including the screen shots, I'm sure it will really help me, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Tattersfield Posted 23 November , 2018 Share Posted 23 November , 2018 I believe this is the Ledger you are looking for (front and reverse). It confirms the Meldon Street address. This shows the Ledgers (and - when they come on line, the cards) working as I envisaged - viz., you can match regimental details with known "family" details and therefore find the soldier quite easily. The number of articles and explanations about these records have now being linked together on the WFA web site by hyperlinking the pieces together. See, for example, this page http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/articles/finding-great-uncle-george/ David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 23 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2018 That is brilliant, thank you very much David. William is proving to be very elusive. I stumbled across him by finding the newspaper article I mentioned in the first post whilst looking for his brother. I knew his name before that but hadn't found any military connection at all. I can't find any definate details of who he married or when he died, just lot's of possibles. I'd really like to know more about him, particularly now I have read the page of the war diary talking about the gas attack he was wounded in. They describe the symptoms caused by a new type of gas the Germans were using, it sounds like mustard gas, which I'm presuming their respirators were useless against as they had over 400 casualties. Working off his NF number and looking at two others with similar ones I'm guessing he joined up around Nov 1915. I don't know when he was moved into the KOYLI but I'm guessing it might have been when the 31st Bn converted to the 86th Training Regiment on the 1st of Sep 1916, but that's just a guess. I'd love to know what he did after the war and if he had a family but I can't find him on the 1939 register either, I think he may have died by then. Thanks again for the help everyone. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 23 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2018 Here's a question, can anyone read the red pencil writing over the top of the first card? I'm assuming there's a date - 24/5/35 but what is the word? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 23 November , 2018 Share Posted 23 November , 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Shiny said: I'm assuming there's a date - 24/5/35 but what is the word? Looks like "deceased" Though BMD seems to indicate death in Oct/Dec 1938 Edited 23 November , 2018 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 23 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2018 Thanks very much, that had been my guess as well. I'm a little puzzled about the Durham registration when he lived in Newcastle certainly from discharge until 1935, there's no more voters registers after that. I wonder if that means he moved into a nursing home then? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 23 November , 2018 Share Posted 23 November , 2018 On 23/11/2018 at 00:13, Shiny said: Can anyone help me find the war diary Pure laziness, I know, but when using Ancestry, when you make your selection in the Medal Roll and before clicking on 'View', there are a couple of options to find the WD. Sometimes it works beautifully [especially if the Bn is mentioned in the description]. HTH On 23/11/2018 at 00:13, Shiny said: Can anyone help me find the war diary Pure laziness, I know, but when using Ancestry, when you make your selection in the Medal Roll and before clicking on 'View', there are a couple of options to find the WD. Sometimes it works beautifully [especially if the Bn is mentioned in the description]. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 23 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2018 Thanks very much, that's always another possibility then which I've never noticed before. Thanks, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 27 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 27 November , 2018 Hi All, I've been told on another forum that other pension cards have the word Dormant stamped on them in red, could that be the word on the card in post 17 and if so is anyone able to explain it? Thanks a lot, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 27 November , 2018 Share Posted 27 November , 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Shiny said: I've been told on another forum that other pension cards have the word Dormant stamped on them in red, could that be the word on the card in post 17 and if so is anyone able to explain it? It would be helpful if you could post an example photo of a card with "Dormant" written on it Edited 27 November , 2018 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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