michaela Posted 20 November , 2018 Share Posted 20 November , 2018 I have recently learned that my great uncle served in this regiment in WW1. Would any one be able to help me in finding out which battles he was involved with. His name was John James Rigby service number w/3143. Many thanks as always Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 21 November , 2018 Share Posted 21 November , 2018 Michaela It would depend upon when your great uncle enlisted, but the Brigade participated in the Gallipoli campaign and there is a War Diary available for that time at The National Archives and through Ancestry. The Diary refers to all three batteries in the Brigade. If your great uncle was awarded the 1914-15 Star then it is possible he was with the Brigade at Gallipoli if he wasn’t then it’s unlikely. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 21 November , 2018 Share Posted 21 November , 2018 (edited) Hello Michaela These are the War Diary references: WO 95/4308 17 Brigade Royal Field Artillery 1915 Jan. - 1916 Feb. WO 95/2291 17 Brigade Royal Field Artillery 1916 Mar. - 1919 Feb. The second, relating to its service in France and Belgium, can be downloaded from the Kew website, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk for about £3.50 each. You may need to add a suffix such as /1, /2 etc as there are two or more diaries in each file. If you have access to Ancestry you may be able to get it free. The first, which relates to Gallipoli, may be available online from Kew but is not on Ancestry. War Diaries rarely mention individuals by name other than officers, but numbers of casualties each day are nearly always given, and the location of the unit, with a short description of its activities, is given on each day. 17 Brigade RFA was part of 29th Division. If you go to the parent site, The Long Long Trail (link at to left of theis page) you will be able to find the battles in which the division was engaged, but it also possible that the brigade supported other divisions when 29 Div's infantry was resting. Ron Edited 21 November , 2018 by Ron Clifton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 21 November , 2018 Share Posted 21 November , 2018 Michaela, The W prefix to his RFA number indicates enlistment into 38th (Welsh) Division - originally designated as 43rd Division - in mid April 1915. So initially he would be in 119th, 120th, 121st or 122nd Brigade RFA. These brigades went over to France in December 1915 and these men qualified for the 1914-15 Star. However, John J. Rigby did not qualify for the medal and it appears he was one of the 195 NCOs and men sent on attachment to 13 Reserve Battery, Hilsea on December 21, 1915. Have you got a date for his service with 92nd Battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaela Posted 21 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2018 Thanks everyone. It's all rather confusing! So many different brigades etc. The only reference to any medals awarded that I have found is the victory medal and British war medal. The info about his battery I found on the Burnley in the Great War site. I emailed them asking where they saw the info, but I had no reply. Do you know if he was posted out to the front? Many thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 21 November , 2018 Share Posted 21 November , 2018 24 minutes ago, michaela said: Do you know if he was posted out to the front Michaela, Most definitely, as his Medal Card indicates, although it would have been in 1916 or later. Also, Burnley enlistments seem to have been accepted into the 38th (Welsh) Division from early April 1915 as do men from Warrington and St. Helens etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaela Posted 21 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2018 Thanks David. Maybe the battery info was from an absent voters list as it also states his address. So would the 38th have recruited at Burnley? Maybe he started with them? So many questions! Unfortunately I can't find his attestation papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaela Posted 22 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 November , 2018 21 hours ago, David Porter said: Michaela, it appears he was one of the 195 NCOs and men sent on attachment to 13 Reserve Battery, Hilsea on December 21, 1915. David Does it give which Brigade/division he was attached to in this information? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 22 November , 2018 Share Posted 22 November , 2018 Michaela, The men I mentioned were still regarded as reserves for 38th Division. They were then given their own Reserve Battery (numbered 57) at Fort Wallington, Fareham in January 1916. They could have gone anywhere from here and not necessarily 38th Division. They were sent where needed once they reached Base Depot in France or elsewhere. It does look like the information you have came from the Absent Voters list of 1918 or 1919. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 22 November , 2018 Share Posted 22 November , 2018 23 hours ago, Ron Clifton said: The first, which relates to Gallipoli, may be available online from Kew but is not on Ancestry. Gallipoli war diaries are only available online through Ancestry (they did the digitisation of those diaries). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 22 November , 2018 Share Posted 22 November , 2018 Thanks for that, David - it's very useful to know. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaela Posted 23 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2018 Can anyone please tell me what info I would get in the forces war record site? I have found an entry for John J Rigby, w/3143 RFA dated 1914. I haven't a subscription, wonder if they do a pay as you go? Many thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 23 November , 2018 Share Posted 23 November , 2018 7 hours ago, michaela said: I have found an entry for John J Rigby, w/3143 RFA dated 1914 Without looking at the detailed entry I suspect this is just the Forces War Record Roll of Sevice that they seem to be creating from any WW1 sources. (clue being it is dated 1914). It seems to be a way they increase the apparent number of records they hold without providing any obviously useful extra info. Of course it could even entice people to sign up thinking there was something new ? I have to say this has put me off renewing my subscription recently because it just produces extra clutter and diasappointment on a search. A shame because they did produce some well transcribed info on Hospital Admissions, inter alia. But Findmypast have caught up and provide the original document that FWR dont. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaela Posted 24 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2018 Thanks charlie962 the only document on FMP is the medal roll, of which he received the victory and British War medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Giffard Posted 8 May , 2019 Share Posted 8 May , 2019 Apologies for piggy backing on to this thread but perhaps I could ask for help with a very similar inquiry? I’ve been looking into a 92nd Battery relative – Sydney Giffard (‘’SG’’). Commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant on 23 July 1910 he was somewhere in India by 1911 with this battery which I believe formed part of the 17th Brigade RFA. The first question I’d like to ask is whether anyone knows – or knows how I can find out – where he or the 92nd were stationed during this time in India which I suspect lasted until the outbreak of was in 1914? My second query is about a gap from August 1914 to January 1915. During this time I know he served in France but the only thing I have relating to the gap is his 1914 Star medal card – hopefully I can attach it. It lists 7 RFA Lieutenants including SG under the heading ‘’Meerut Division, 9th BDE (brigade), 19th, 20th, & 28th Batteries and Ammunition Column’’. And 5 out of the 6 Lieutenants including SG disembarked [in France] on 15th October 2014. From what I’ve seen elsewhere I believe this was in Marseilles. As you can see, the division, brigade and battery numbers are all different from where SG was before. Getting to January 1915, the 29th Divisional Artillery was formed including the 17th Brigade (13th, 26th and 92nd Batteries) and mid-March they left Avonmouth, ultimately for the Gallipoli where Sydney Giffard died in early May. So by Jan 1915 he was back with the 92nd Battery but I would love to know anything about why he was switched from the 92nd in October, what his new battery (whichever one it was) did in France, and then why he switched back – all in the period from August 1914 to January 1915. Not sure if it is any help but on both his medal cards is the reference NW/6/19801 and separately I’ve seen the numbers 15678/7 and WO 339/7676. I’d be very grateful for any information or details of any leads I can follow up. Best wishes and many thanks for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 8 May , 2019 Share Posted 8 May , 2019 Army lists have Giffard as Jan 1911 - 92nd battery - Secunderabad April 1913 - 92nd battery - Secunderabad May 1913 - 92nd battery - Secunderabad ['for Dinapore' - so due to move..] .. and same in June 1913.. and Lt in 92nd - Dinapore in July 1914 on mobilisation lots of officers moved units to make them up to strength etc [several from india were in UK and assigned to other Brigades], and extra officers were required for BACs and DACs I see Hart was before in 28th, Chance previously 26th Bty, Darley 10th Bty. I dont know if that helps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 8 May , 2019 Share Posted 8 May , 2019 Hello Ben In the 17th Brigade RFA War Diary, Lieutenant Giffard is listed in a nominal roll of Officers with 26th Battery. He is with the same Battery when the Brigade embarked HT Kingstonian at Avonmouth on 16th/17th March 1915; they left about midday. The diary notes that he was shot at the observation station at about 5.40am. Although this is recorded on 1st May I would take this to mean 5.40am on the following day. The 29th Divisional CRA War Diary has the same time and the 2nd of May when he was shot and severely wounded. His death was reported in The Times 10th May 1915, page 3. Hope that helps. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 8 May , 2019 Share Posted 8 May , 2019 Hi Ben, In the 1911 census FMP has him as: First name(s): Sydney Last name: Giffard Marital status: Single Age: 21 Birth place: Marlborough Wilts Address: Trimulgherry Deccan India - I think that is the same as Tirumalagiri, part of the city of Secunderabad Unit: 92nd Battery, RFA Rank: 2nd Lieutenant The National Archives reference (WO 339/7676) you have is what remains of his officer file. Hopefully, it would fill in the blanks for you. You could visit TNA in person, or get a copy sent to you. I understand that using a file copying service (eg https://www.arcre.com/copyservice) is far less expensive than ordering direct from TNA. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Giffard Posted 8 May , 2019 Share Posted 8 May , 2019 Battiscombe, Allan and Chris - many thanks to you all for all this info. Much for me to work through! This certainly fills in the gaps regarding the pre-war period and I'll see if I can tie this up with anything else. Regarding the Oct - Dec 1914 period I've found online a War Diary for the 9th Brigade, 19th, 20th and 28th Batteries - so in line with the 1914 medal card. What I've seen covers August 1914 (starting in Meerut) to 2nd December at Le Touret - so I'll work through that. If it's all right with you I might be back for some further guidance! Best wishes, Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Giffard Posted 13 June , 2019 Share Posted 13 June , 2019 On 08/05/2019 at 06:08, alantwo said: Hello Ben In the 17th Brigade RFA War Diary, Lieutenant Giffard is listed in a nominal roll of Officers with 26th Battery. He is with the same Battery when the Brigade embarked HT Kingstonian at Avonmouth on 16th/17th March 1915; they left about midday. The diary notes that he was shot at the observation station at about 5.40am. Although this is recorded on 1st May I would take this to mean 5.40am on the following day. The 29th Divisional CRA War Diary has the same time and the 2nd of May when he was shot and severely wounded. His death was reported in The Times 10th May 1915, page 3. Hope that helps. Alan Hello Alan, Many thanks for all this information and apologies for a very late reply. You mention two War Diaries - 17th Brigade RFA and then 29th Divisional CRA - if I wanted to get access to these how would i go about it? Many thanks! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 13 June , 2019 Share Posted 13 June , 2019 Hello Ben The War Diaries are accessible at the National Archives at Kew for free but clearly it will require a visit. I believe researchers are available to get copies for you for a fee, but that is not something I am familiar with. The diaries are also available through Ancestry with a paid subscription, though I'm fairly sure they can be accessed through your public library for free, but please check. The Embarkation and Disembarkation Books are not, to my knowledge, digitised thus these would need to be accessed at Kew. You can view The Times Digital Archive with a library card at your local library. I can also access the TDA records from my home computer using the County Council's Library web-site and entering my library card number, but I'm not sure if this is available nationwide. Hope that helps. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Giffard Posted 13 June , 2019 Share Posted 13 June , 2019 5 hours ago, alantwo said: Hello Ben The War Diaries are accessible at the National Archives at Kew for free but clearly it will require a visit. I believe researchers are available to get copies for you for a fee, but that is not something I am familiar with. The diaries are also available through Ancestry with a paid subscription, though I'm fairly sure they can be accessed through your public library for free, but please check. The Embarkation and Disembarkation Books are not, to my knowledge, digitised thus these would need to be accessed at Kew. You can view The Times Digital Archive with a library card at your local library. I can also access the TDA records from my home computer using the County Council's Library web-site and entering my library card number, but I'm not sure if this is available nationwide. Hope that helps. Alan Hi Alan, Thanks so much! Clearly lots for me to do. Best wishes. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 28 June , 2019 Share Posted 28 June , 2019 On 13/06/2019 at 19:55, Ben Giffard said: Hi Alan, Thanks so much! Clearly lots for me to do. Best wishes. Ben CWGC Lancashire Landing Cemetery yesterday. Lieutenant Giffard is front row centre. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Giffard Posted 30 April , 2020 Share Posted 30 April , 2020 On 13/06/2019 at 13:55, Ben Giffard said: Hi Alan, Thanks so much! Clearly lots for me to do. Best wishes. Ben Hi Alan, I've been offline a while but was returning to this. Would you by any chance have the National Archives Wo reference for the two war diaries you mention? Ben Wishes, Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Giffard Posted 30 April , 2020 Share Posted 30 April , 2020 (edited) On 12/06/2019 at 22:38, Ben Giffard said: Hello Alan, Many thanks for all this information and apologies for a very late reply. You mention two War Diaries - 17th Brigade RFA and then 29th Divisional CRA - if I wanted to get access to these how would i go about it? Many thanks! Ben Hi Allan - Just to add a bit more to this. I have a copy of Wo 95/3936/3 which tracks the 9th Brigade RFA including the 7th Meerut Division. They sailed from Bombay and landed at Marseilles on 3rd September. I've not got to grips with working through the detail but this record runs to late in 1915 still with references to the Meerut Division. However, at some stage my relative Sydney must have transferred and above you've picked up details of him embarking onboard HT Kingstonian at Avonmouth on 16th/17th March 1915. I'd love to pick up the story from where 95/3936/3 leaves off. If you have the Wo number(s) for that I'd be very grateful for them. (Sounds like you may have been able to access them yourself given the references you found?) I've read war diaries for three of his brothers but this chap did not leave or did not write one. Through the Brigade diaries I'm hoping to be able to trace his journey through France in 1914 and early 1915 up to the point where he left for Gallipoli. Many thanks! Ben Edited 30 April , 2020 by Ben Giffard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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