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adk46canada

4th Ersatz Division at Second Arras 1918

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adk46canada

Does any kind soul have the regimental histories of IR 369 and FAR 90 of the 4th Ersatz Division?

 

I am looking for their pages related to the Battle of Second Arras 26 August to 3 September and unfortunately are not available in Canada. The two histories are Erinnerungsblätter des Infanterie-Regiments Nr. 360 [3]; Donat; Kremmen 1930; 118 S. and  Johannes Theuerkauff, Das Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 90 [1]; Aus Deutschlands großer Zeit, Bd. 11; Zeulenroda (Thür.) 1930, B. Sporn.

 

I am working on a detailed campaign account and have at least one regimental history from each of the German divisions in the battle except for the 4th Ersatz.

 

Thank-you in advance.

Bill Stewart

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fougassefilms

Of the two histories, the latter can be accessed at the Imperial war Museum, London - https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1504004044

The former may be trickier to trace.

The Bundesarchive has records pertaining to the regiment here: http://www.argus.bstu.bundesarchiv.de/MSG3-26549/index.htm?kid=b144c6de-12ec-43b5-b938-d633b5bcaa22 but it will demand a visit in person. The only copy of the book I could trace is here: https://portal.dnb.de/opac.htm?method=simpleSearch&query=721045750

I too am researching 4th Ersatz - in my case their time in the Loos Salient from January to April 1918.

Not sure this helps but good luck anyway.

andy

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AOK4

IR 369 was not in the 4th Ersatz Division...

If you work on a detailed campaign account, you should use all available German regimental histories involved. There are published histories for IR 359, IR 360, FAR 90, the pioneers (in Pionier-Bataillon 4) and also a divisional history (Von Nieuport bis Podfilipie).

Edited by AOK4

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adk46canada

AOK4

 

You are correct I should have written IR 359, but what I really need is IR 360. Unfortunately, from the GenWiki site by Second Arras, the IR 359 was no longer with the division. Only IR 360 and FAR 90 have a regimental history. Unfortunately, I am based in Canada and there are no sources like this available. I have gotten digital copies of at least one regimental history from every German division that fought in the campaign with the one exception being the 4th Ersatz.

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AOK4

I'll check out and see whether I can help.

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adk46canada

AOK4

 

Any help would be appreciated. The issue is the 4th Ersatz played an important role in the later stages of the battle and gets blamed by the other regimental histories for any failures. I would like to see if they had any counterpoint to those claims.

 

Thank-you

ADK46

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AOK4
1 hour ago, adk46canada said:

AOK4

 

Any help would be appreciated. The issue is the 4th Ersatz played an important role in the later stages of the battle and gets blamed by the other regimental histories for any failures. I would like to see if they had any counterpoint to those claims.

 

Thank-you

ADK46

 

I'll check. All regimental histories are alike. If there was a problem, they were never themselves the cause of it, it was always a neighbouring unit...

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fougassefilms

adk46canada

 

I am visiting the IWM next week to research several documents including FAR 90. I can only use my mobile phone to photograph pages but I would be happy to do so providing they don't run into too many.

 

Ersatz Pionier-Bataillon Nr. 4 were involved at Arras in 1917. The regimental account has only a page and a half on the subject. (p252-253) I own a copy of the book and would be happy to digitise and send them to you if you give me your email.

 

AOK4

Is the divisional history published anywhere? "Von Nieuport bis Podfilipie" does not show up in google

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fougassefilms

Made a mistake,, you are seeking Arras in 1918. 

E PB 4 had been superseded by PB 304 & 305 from from 9.7.15.

The pages I mentioned before contain all information from Arras 1917 to October 1918. They are of no real value at all and do not describe any action other than moves between the Western and eastern Fronts. 

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adk46canada

fougassefilms,

 

Yes, I am interested in the 1918 experience. Any content from the FAR 90 is more than I have now and so would be much appreciated. The British, Canadian, German records/regimental histories, and the corps commander's diary do not paint a positive picture of the formation, but I would like to see what it said about itself.

 

Thanks

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GreyC
8 hours ago, fougassefilms said:

s the divisional history published anywhere? "Von Nieuport bis Podfilipie" does not show up in google

Hamburg : Hermes, 126 pages. Mit Aufn. von Alfred Eilers u.a..
GreyC
Edited by GreyC

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adk46canada

Having done some additional digging, the 4th Ersatz's OOB underwent a change in early August with the dissolution of its 361st IR and replacement by the 214th RIR from the disbanded 46th RD. Other German regimental histories including the division history for the 26th Reserve Division refer to the 361st IR and that fooled me. Canadian POW reports as well as other documents indicate that by this point the 4th Ersatz Division consisted of the 360th and 362nd IR and 214th RIR.

 

The 214th does have a regimental history but I have not been able to find it online. It is Hanns Bastanier u. a., Geschichte des Großherzoglich Mecklenburgischen Reserve-Infanterie-Regiments Nr. 214 [3]; Dessau 1933, Selbstverlag, 464 Seiten.

 

Thank-you again

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AOK4

Hello,

I checked the regimental history of RIR 214. They were only transferred on 15 September 1918 to the 4th Ersatz Division.

Jan

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adk46canada

AOK4

 

Thank-you and I will revise accordingly.

 

Bill

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fougassefilms

adk46canada

When I visit the IWM next I will try to get the information you require. It may be early next month.

 

GreyC

Thank you for the clarification. It looks like it's going to be tricky getting a look at relevant pages without a trip to Germany.

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GreyC

Hi fougassefilms,

my pleasure. Yes it could be tricky. No hits in British Library or Worldcat s far as I can see.

GreyC

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AOK4

I have the book, but it I would damage it to take decent scans or pics...

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fougassefilms

AOK4

 

Is the book in a very fragile state? I myself have a couple of Bavarian Accounts that are pretty fragile but I use a mobile phone to snap pages without damaging them. I then use a program called "ABBYY Fine Reader Online" to interpret FRAKTUR into standard GERMAN text. I then use Google translate to get the gist of the text. This methodology isn't perfect by any means but it gives me a clear idea of what information is usable.

Just for the record, how many pages in the book relate to the time spent by 4th Ersatz in the Loos Salient?

best

andy

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adk46canada

fougassefilms,

 

Thank-you in advance for any information you may have.

 

regards

Adk46

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fougassefilms

adk46canada

 

Here is a pdf of the relevant chapter of FAR 90 war account for 2ND ARRAS: It took a bit longer for me to get to the IWM than I would have liked.

Enjoy!

a

FAR 90 - 2nd Arras.pdf

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adk46canada

Fougassfilms,

 

Thank-you for this and taking the trouble to look it up. Most useful.

 

Regards

Bill

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