yorksburnett Posted 16 November , 2018 Share Posted 16 November , 2018 Company teams from the units forming the 23rd Infantry Brigade competed in an association football tournament that took place in France during WW1. The football matches were held throughout 1915 and into 1916, and took place while the competing battalions were stationed away from the Front Line. In 1915-16 it was won by a team from the 2nd Bn Cameronians (Scottish Rifles). In 1916-17 it was won by 23rd Co. MGC; the winning team included John KEIR, Pte No.55918, 23rd Co. MGC (seated 2nd right front row in the photo). Can anyone tell me exactly when and where the 1916-17 football competition took place? I have a copy of 23rd Co MGC war diary but have found no reference to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 17 November , 2018 Share Posted 17 November , 2018 13 hours ago, yorksburnett said: I have a copy of 23rd Co MGC war diary but have found no reference to it. That's not surprising, because recording this sort of event was not why War Diaries were kept, which was "to maintain a record from which, in due course, the history of the campaign can be compiled." The fact that there was a Christmas Truce in 1914 and that football matches were played in no-man's-land is attested in various letters home, but very few, if indeed any, unit War Diaries mention it. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david west Posted 17 November , 2018 Share Posted 17 November , 2018 (edited) Hello yorksburnett, A very interesting post. My Grandfather was with the 23rd Machine Gun Company, his name was Ernest Albert West, service number 17551. He was transferred, with 30 other lads from the 2nd Battalion Devonshire Regt to form the 23rd MG Coy in 1916. Grandad later became CSM of A Company, 8th Battalion MGC. You mention that you have the 23rd MG Coy War Diary, i would love to read the War Diary. Is there anyway you could send me a copy of it ? Best Regards, David Edited 17 November , 2018 by david west Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorksburnett Posted 17 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 17 November , 2018 (edited) Thank you Ron I am aware of the function of war diaries but looked for any reference to the inter-company football tournament just in case. and David The 23 Co. MGC War Diary is avaiable on "Ancestry" - copy and paste this link into your browser: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43112_1715_0-00000?backurl=https%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fsearch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d60779%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=43112_1715_0-00317 Edited 17 November , 2018 by yorksburnett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 17 November , 2018 Admin Share Posted 17 November , 2018 David, 23 Brigade Machine Gun Company diary is at TNA here, it will be too big to email methinks http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352485 Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 17 November , 2018 Admin Share Posted 17 November , 2018 I have found references to football/rugby tournaments in the Welsh Fusiliers war diary I have, so they were not always ignored (certainly post Armistice). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david west Posted 17 November , 2018 Share Posted 17 November , 2018 Thanks yorksburnett & DavidOwen for the info, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin W Taylor Posted 17 November , 2018 Share Posted 17 November , 2018 yorks, I think the chateau is the same one as shown here - la Neuville, Corbie. - http://battlefields1418.50megs.com/9koyli.htm Regards Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorksburnett Posted 19 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 19 November , 2018 That's magic! Thank you so much Colin. Now that I know where the photo was taken I can go through the 23 Coy MGC War Diary to find out when they were there. Regards Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorksburnett Posted 9 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 9 December , 2018 Just to tie up the loose ends of this thread. 23rd Coy MGC were in billets at Corbie from 11th to 19th February 1917 and I think I've found the chateau where the photograph was taken on Google Earth, Street View: No.1 Rue de la Fontaine d'Amour, Corbie - near the railway station. (Screen shot attached) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordercollie Posted 9 December , 2018 Share Posted 9 December , 2018 Regardless of the purpose of war diaries the 60th Infantry Brigade war diary includes an appendix running to 18 pages explaining in some detail arrangements for their horse show on 17th March 1918. Had it been planned for a few days later I suppose it would have been cancelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordercollie Posted 9 December , 2018 Share Posted 9 December , 2018 The 23rd Infantry Brigade war diary records that the Brigade Football Challenge Cup took place in December 1916. The first round on 1st December, the second round on 4th December (in which 23 MG Coy beat 2/Sco Rifles 3-1), the semi-finals on 12th December (in which 23 MG Coy beat 26 Fd Amb 3-1) and the final on 17th December in which 23 MG Coy beat 2/W Yorks 3-2. Throughout this period the Bde HQ was at Woirel and 23 MG Coy was at Epaumesnil. The diary does not give the locations of the football matches but the final is listed as "2/W Yorks v 23 MG Coy" which might suggest that 2/W Yorks were the home team; they were at Le Fay. 2/Sco Rifles may have been soundly beaten in the football but they did win the Brigade Cross Country Run on 16th December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorksburnett Posted 13 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 December , 2018 Can't thank you enough for this "Bordercollie". Earlier comments in this thread had suggested that it was very unlikely that activities such as football matches would be mentioned in war diaries so I had not looked for the 23rd Brigade diary. I know - I should have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 13 December , 2018 Admin Share Posted 13 December , 2018 I have found references to sports days, boxing matches, football and rugby matches and even gymkhanas in war diaries I have perused, strangely no cricket matches so far.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorksburnett Posted 13 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 December , 2018 You have previously told me this David and I should have taken the time to check the 23rd Brigade diary just in case. Seek and ye shall find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 13 December , 2018 Admin Share Posted 13 December , 2018 38 minutes ago, yorksburnett said: You have previously told me this David and I should have taken the time to check the 23rd Brigade diary just in case. Seek and ye shall find! Sorry senior moment! Glad you have found what you needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 13 December , 2018 Share Posted 13 December , 2018 I can't add anything to the original question posed, but the cup won by the 2nd Scottish Rifles for the 1915/16 Tournament is still in the regimental collection of The Cameronians (Scottish Rifles). Slightly mislabelled, but available to view online here - http://www.sllcmuseumscollections.co.uk/search.do?view=detail&page=1&id=136578&db=object The inscription actually reads: "Inter-Company/ Association Football Cup/ 23rd Infantry Brigade/ France. 1915-1916" I notice that the cup won by the 23rd Co. MGC is somewhat different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorksburnett Posted 13 December , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 December , 2018 (edited) Thanks for the link. Interesting - it appears that 2nd Scottish Rifles kept the cup they won and a new cup was presented to 23rd Coy MGC. I have now read the 23rd Brigade war diary for December 1916 and discovered that there was also an 8th Division Football Cup which was contested between teams representing the 23rd Brigade, 24th Brigade, 25th Brigade and 22nd Bn Durham Light Infantry. As winners of the 23rd Brigade Football Challenge Cup the 23rd Coy MGC represented their brigade. They beat 22nd Bn D.L.I 5-3 in the semi final but lost 2-3 in the final against 2nd Bn Northamptonshire Regt representing 24th Brigade. Edited 13 December , 2018 by yorksburnett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordercollie Posted 14 December , 2018 Share Posted 14 December , 2018 You are welcome Yorksburnett. When I saw the debate in this thread about whether sporting events would get a mention in a unit war diary I was reminded of the 60 Brigade Horse Show which I stumbled across when looking for 6/KSLI casualty figures during the Spring 1918 offensive. There was nothing about the Horse Show in the 6/KSLI war diary and so I thought that the place to look for information about the 23 Brigade Football Challenge Cup might well be the brigade war diary rather than unit war diaries. I suppose the Staff Captain at Brigade might well have been marginally less hard-pressed than a unit adjutant and so might have been marginally more likely to create a record of such matters. The 8th Division Challenge Cup was probably the pinnacle of 2/Northants' achievement because the composition of a Corps was too fluid and it would be necessary to have two Divisions out of the line at the same time in order to arrange a fixture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ct65as Posted 9 September , 2019 Share Posted 9 September , 2019 I have just found a reference online to a photo of the winners of the inter company cup 1916 that was in the Oxford Journal Illustrated newspaper. The website write-up states it was in the paper 5th. July 1916, *** see below. It includes the rank and only 10 surnames, the players I guess, of those in the photo. There is no digital image available online. A Pte Osmond (Oxford) is mentioned and I believe it refers to my Grandfather Ronald George Osmond who was born in Oxford. He was a gunner in the RFA and I assumed it could be him. Then the penny dropped that I should check GWF and was excited to find picture of the 1916-17 winners. I only have two photos of my Grandfather and at first didn't see a resemblance to anyone. Had another look, could it be him standing behind the man in the front row, third from the right with the swagger stick? If you go to my post of 9th. June, 2009, RFA Uniform Etc. you will see a photo of him. If it is him, quite a change in a short time. What do you think? *** I read here the match was played in December 1916 and now think the website write-up should read that the photo made it into the paper on 5th. July 1917. yorksburnett, your John Keir and my Grandfather knew each other. I know that the other photo reference to a Pte Osmond of 1 Stockmore Street, Oxford serving in India with the 5th. Hants. is my Grand Uncle because that was the family home. He is Ronald's brother Frederick William. He was in India but with the 7th. North Staffordshire. This was listed as being in the paper 11th. August 1915. Any comments/corrections will be appreciated, thank you, Lynne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ct65as Posted 9 September , 2019 Share Posted 9 September , 2019 I do apologize for my huge error regarding the picture of the Inter Company Cup in the Oxford Journal Illustrated, I have mixed apples with oranges. I didn't realize I could click on the photo image number. If I had, it would have solved the date in the paper, only ten surnames and the reference to India issues. The full title is Winners of the Inter Company Cup 1916, A Company (Hants) Bantam Tug-of-War Team. So, not Ronald George Osmond. When I went the extra step for Pte Osmond, 1, Stockmore Street it brought up Title, Private Fred Osmond. It still leaves the issue of his being listed as serving with the 5th. Hants. Any thoughts? This WW1 newbie bows down to the experts and I'm always happy to be corrected. Again, apologies for my mistake, Lynne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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