MrEd Posted 16 November , 2018 Share Posted 16 November , 2018 Wondering what these mean, are they types of shells? the war diary has the following entries in it, repeated on 120 odd pages. 8th and 9th/8/17 - 74 SB fired 400 P on Glencourse Wood - 118 SB fired 200 M on Glencourse Wood - 275 SB fired 554 S on Glencourse Wood Now i know SB is siege battery, but what are the P M and S? I presume types of shell and the figure refers to number? I can post a small example screengrab of the War Diary but wasnt sure on copyright so have just transcribed it Thanks Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petwes Posted 16 November , 2018 Share Posted 16 November , 2018 Ed Which war diary. I assume 53 HAG? I would agree number is probably rounds but like you am stumped by the letter! Would like to be educated also. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 16 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 16 November , 2018 Just now, petwes said: Ed Which war diary. I assume 53 HAG? I would agree number is probably rounds but like you am stumped by the letter! Would like to be educated also. Peter yep, 53 HAG, the amounts fired is astonishing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petwes Posted 16 November , 2018 Share Posted 16 November , 2018 (edited) Ed As you probably know the three batteries were equipped with different Howitzers, I don't know if this helps. The amount for the 8" Howitzers looks impressive. Peter Edited 16 November , 2018 by petwes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 16 November , 2018 Share Posted 16 November , 2018 S could be shrapneP could be gas??l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 16 November , 2018 Share Posted 16 November , 2018 Phosgene and Mustard ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petwes Posted 16 November , 2018 Share Posted 16 November , 2018 Would have been my first guesses. But I don't think we had Mustard until November. I'm reasonably certain an 8" Howitzer never fired Shrapnel. As far as I remember Britain was well behind with gas shell development at this point in the war the Livens projector being the main delivery system. The only thing that springs to mind is M for Mellinite. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 17 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 17 November , 2018 5 hours ago, petwes said: Ed As you probably know the three batteries were equipped with different Howitzers, I don't know if this helps. The amount for the 8" Howitzers looks impressive. Peter Thanks peter, do you know what the 252 was equipped with? thanks ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14276265 Posted 17 November , 2018 Share Posted 17 November , 2018 6 hours ago, MrEd said: 8th and 9th/8/17 - 74 SB fired 400 P on Glencourse Wood Is it 400 F rather than 400 P? The letter codes define specific natures of ammunition: M is 9.2" Howitzer HE; S is 8" Howitzer HE; F is 6" Howitzer, Light, HE. The decode for P is actually 2.75" Shrapnel (used in the 2.75" Mountain Gun). 265 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 17 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 17 November , 2018 6 hours ago, 14276265 said: Is it 400 F rather than 400 P? The letter codes define specific natures of ammunition: M is 9.2" Howitzer HE; S is 8" Howitzer HE; F is 6" Howitzer, Light, HE. The decode for P is actually 2.75" Shrapnel (used in the 2.75" Mountain Gun). 265 It could possibly be an F - am I allowed to take a screengrab of a representative passage from the war diary and put it up here? It’s a pdf from the NA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14276265 Posted 17 November , 2018 Share Posted 17 November , 2018 1 hour ago, MrEd said: It could possibly be an F - am I allowed to take a screengrab of a representative passage from the war diary and put it up here? It’s a pdf from the NA There is no problem with putting up one page from a war diary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 17 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 17 November , 2018 7 minutes ago, 14276265 said: There is no problem with putting up one page from a war diary. Okay here is a screen grab of a representative entry, it’s definitely a ‘P’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14276265 Posted 17 November , 2018 Share Posted 17 November , 2018 Yes, I'd agree that looks like a P, which is at odds with the list of shell codes. Are there other examples throughout the diary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petwes Posted 17 November , 2018 Share Posted 17 November , 2018 10 hours ago, MrEd said: Thanks peter, do you know what the 252 was equipped with? thanks ed 6" Howitzers. Are they firing P as well? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 17 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 17 November , 2018 28 minutes ago, 14276265 said: Yes, I'd agree that looks like a P, which is at odds with the list of shell codes. Are there other examples throughout the diary? Yes. It’s repeated numerous times and always next to a number ‘xxx battery fired xxx P on polygon wood’ etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 17 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 17 November , 2018 26 minutes ago, petwes said: 6" Howitzers. Are they firing P as well? Peter Thanks peter - in the WD it mentions ‘252 now 6 howitzers’ i wasnt sure if that was 6 in number or 6 in size of calibre - am I right in saying that they would have 6, 6 inch howitzers in the battery? 252 was firing ‘P’ whatever that was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petwes Posted 17 November , 2018 Share Posted 17 November , 2018 In 1917 all the batteries except 275 had 4 howitzers. 275 SB was made up to 6 on 6th June 1917. The other batteries went from 4 to 6 during the first few months of 1918. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 17 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 17 November , 2018 1 hour ago, petwes said: In 1917 all the batteries except 275 had 4 howitzers. 275 SB was made up to 6 on 6th June 1917. The other batteries went from 4 to 6 during the first few months of 1918. Peter Perfect thanks, will give the war diaries another read see if I can find mentionnof that and dates thanks a lot ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14276265 Posted 17 November , 2018 Share Posted 17 November , 2018 In concert with the other howitzers, the 6" would have been firing either light or heavy HE. If the intention was cratering, rather than penetrating to destroy deep bunkers, then light shell would have been the choice. It would be interesting to find a war diary for other units to see what code they used for 6" HE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 18 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2018 (edited) I have read a few diaries now and see similar codes a lot, however the diaries I have been reading are at brigade or command level, not individual SB level. i thought it may be location details - a target but I can’t find that that tallies with map references tbh and i am not sure on that at all.. i also discovered that by May 2018 252 had gone up to 6 guns, but I can’t find a reference that precisely dates it but I have written it in my notes. Will revisit the war diary, however my notes say on 9/4/18 252 had 4 guns and was under XB Corps, 45 HAG. 252 moved to 53 Brigade XXII Corps on 22/4/18 and went up to 6 guns so sometime around then i guess. P, S and M Phosgene. Shrapnel and Mustard maybe? I dont know, without ‘proof’ I am hesitant to take that guess as fact. Edited 26 November , 2018 by MrEd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now