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Carl Hunter

Temp. Lieutenant Horace G. Stone, RNVR

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Carl Hunter

I am researching the short career of Temp. Lieutenant Horace Stone RNVR, who completed (?) university at McGill University in Montreal at 25 years of age and traveled to the UK where he joined the RNVR. From June 1916 through to November 1918 Stone was assigned to the old cruiser "Hermione" stationed off Southampton. From this base he served on a number of Elco Motor Launches (ML's).

 

I have scoured Kew Archives (on the web) and was only able to find a copy of Stone's service on HMS Hermione. I could find no evidence of Stone's enlistment or training prior to joining Hermione. The officer records at Kew for the RNVR displayed no record of Stone.

 

Any ideas where I might look? Surely civilians arriving from abroad would have to enlist somewhere prior to being assigned officer category, assessed for aptitude and assigned a ship? Stone was an experienced and competitive sailor in his private life but had no military training that I've been able to find.

 

Carl Hunter

West Vancouver, Canada

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seaJane

He is in the RNVR section of the Navy List (available online at archive.org) from the July 1916 issue when he appears as Temporary Sub-Lieutenant Horace Gordon Stone, seniority 22 May 1916. He was promoted Temporary Lieutenant in time for the October 1917 issue, but they didn't print posting details for security reasons. I strongly suspect that with a sailing background he had any training he needed on the job.

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Carl Hunter

Did the RNVR have recruiting locations outside the UK, such as Montreal? According to passenger lists, Stone arrived in Liverpool on June 5, 2016 on the "Metagama" of the Canadian Pacific LIne. Why would his seniority be listed as May 22, 1916?

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ARABIS

His service record is also available on Find My Past.

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Carl Hunter

Regarding Kew Listings. I have a copy of the document horatio2 identified. It is from the ships records of the HMS Hermione. The information confirms appointment dates including May 22, 1916. There's a note that he attended "...for course of instruction R.N. College at Greenwich 10.6.16". Maybe that was all the training he had. 

 

Stone, Horace Gordon ADM 337_121_671.pdfStone, Horace Gordon ADM 337_121_671.pdf

 

Can you open this file?

 

I think I can decipher most of the cryptic navy lingo!

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seaJane

Re: the May 22 seniority and the June 5 arrival, perhaps there was a recruiting office at the Canadian end and he or they telegraphed?? It sounds mad, but that's all I can think of. Or maybe it's some kind of administrative necessity for lining up group intakes.

 

Arrived Greenwich 10/6/16 -- and then "8/16 ML 330" - I make that 20 days of June and all July for instruction before posting to ML 330 in August 1916.

Found fit for duty all through that posting and re-appointed on promotion.

I'm intrigued to see that he is at one point (28.9.18) with EUROPA for Imbros (?possibly in hospital) and there is correpondence with Rear Admiral Adriatic that he is to be released for leave to Canada when his relief is available.

Looks as if he was only ever fit for shore service - Kosmos for shore service at Havre naval/submarine base, for example; "surveyed Havre - unfit for sea - 30/10/18 Hermione add[ition]al.

2-11-18 Survey at Haslar [the Royal Naval Hospital] forthwith. 29.10.18 adm[it]ted Haslar Psychasthenia survey = 23.11.18 invalided to retain rank as from 25.11.18" - a good character report ("shows zeal & attention to duty").

Only to die of influenza, poor lad.

 

 

 

 

Edited by seaJane
typos

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horatio2
11 hours ago, Carl Hunter said:

It is from the ships records of the HMS Hermione

Not so. This is his RNVR record of service from the Admiralty ledger.

 

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horatio2

sJ, You are reading the wrong record. Stone's record is at the bottom of the page. He also died of 'flu (in Paris. Never at Haslar).

Edited by horatio2

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear SeaJane,

Where does one find Stone's (or Lt. Alfred Pepperell's RNVR, for example) 'character report'?

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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seaJane

Ah, sorry about that! I got carried away - wasn't expecting the surplus record not to have been trimmed off (so used to being able to crop things).

 

Kim, it's in among all the writing and has to be picked out.

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear seaJane,

The officer noted as showing 'zeal and attention to duty' was the other Canadian, T/Lt Charles Baby...

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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Carl Hunter

Hi Crew:   Sorry about the record from Kew c/w another individual's record at the top of the page covering Lt Stone's service. Would have stripped it if I knew how!

 

Horatio2, what is the "Admiralty Ledger"? Seems that the notes of Stone's experience were inked in more or less as they occurred onboard the Hermione?

 

I've since found that Stone arrived in Liverpool on June 5, 1916 and listed himself as Lt Stone, RNVR. Some how he was already enlisted and qualified as an office before he arrived in England. I am searching other ship passenger lists to ascertain if Stone had traveled to England in 1915, enlisted, etc. returned to Canada and then returned to England (Liverpool) the next year.

 

Am also investigation the possibility that the RNVR had recruiting offices in Canada; anyone any comment on that possibility? There must be an enlistment record somewhere.

 

C
 

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horatio2

Ships did not keep officers' records like these. The entries do not, in any case, refer solely to his appointment to HERMIONE. These entries were made in ledgers kept by clerks in the (RNVR) officers' appointing section in the Admiralty.

I think it certain that he was commissioned in Canada by Admiralty authority, hence the notation "Canadian Entry". Precisely where and by whom the administration was done in Canada is not recorded. The result was than they travelled to UK as commissioned officers, not as civilians.

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seaJane

This may be relevant:-

"As volunteer numbers grew, an Overseas Division was created in February 1916 to recruit Canadians for service with the Royal Navy. Recruiting for this division was divided into nine districts, headquartered in the provincial capitals except in British Columbia, where the headquarters was in Vancouver."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Naval_Canadian_Volunteer_Reserve

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Carl Hunter

Thanks to each of you for your insights and investigation. I had. last evening, come across the Wiki note regarding the RCNVR and concluded that that was the likely route of Lt Stone's commissioning and initial training. It seems that few Canadian documents such as enlistment information are on the web and from Vancouver, Ottawa and archives there are too far for me to take on at this time.

 

Will call a halt to Lt. Stone's history and send a draft to a current family connection to see if what I've written rings true.

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

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Carl Hunter

I've almost finished my piece on Lt. Horace Stone, RNVR and find I'm missing a piece of perhaps relevant information. From November, 1916 to December 1918, Horace served on three different motor launches based from the old cruiser HMS Hermione; the M.L.'s were 427, 328 and finally 222. Does anyone know where I could find (on the net) a list of the 62 motor launches assembled to support the Seebrugge action in April, 1918?

 

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seaJane

Dr Anthony Firth might know; he spoke on the motor launches at the NMRN Portsmouth centenary conference in Zeebrugge last April. Unfortunately he has quite a few namesakes and I'm not sure which is him, but I can ask.

Edited by seaJane

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Carl Hunter

I'd appreciate his input if you're able to make contact.

 

C

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Carl Hunter

Hello SeaJane, any success in locating Dr Anthony Firth in regard to the specific motor launches engaged in the attacks on Zeebrugge?

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seaJane

Sorry, I missed your previous one! Have sent myself a reminder.

sJ

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domwalsh
8 hours ago, Carl Hunter said:

Hello SeaJane, any success in locating Dr Anthony Firth in regard to the specific motor launches engaged in the attacks on Zeebrugge?

 From the official report:

V.-THE PASSAGE OF THE FORCES.

 

45. At the moment of starting, the forces were disposed thus:

(a.) In the Swin.

 

For the attack on the Zeebrugge Mole: "Vindictive," "Iris II.," and "Daffodil."

To block the Bruges Canal: "Thetis," "Intrepid," and "Iphigenia."

To block the entrance to Ostend: "Sirius" and "Brilliant."

 

(b.) At Dover.

 

T.B.D. "Warwick" (flag of Vice-Admiral).

Unit L, "Phoebe" and "North Star."

Unit M, "Trident" and "Mansfield."

Unit F, "Whirlwind" and "Myngs."

Unit R, "Velox," "Morris," "Moorsom," and "Melpomene."

Unit X, "Tempest" and "Tetrarch."

To damage Zeebrugge viaduct: Submarines C.1 and C.3.

A special picket boat to rescue crews of C.1 and C.3.

Minesweeper "Lingfield" to take off surplus steaming parties of blockships, which had 100 miles to steam.

Eighteen coastal motor boats, numbers 5, 7, 15, 16, 17, 21B, 22B, 23B, 24A, 25BD, 26B, 27A, 28A, 29A, 30B, 32A, 34A, 35A.

Thirty-three motor launches, numbers 79, 110, 121, 128, 223, 239, 241, 252, 258, 262, 272, 280, 282, 308, 314, 345, 397, 416, 420, 422, 424, 513, 525, 526, 533, 549, 552, 555, 557, 558, 560, 561, 562.

To bombard vicinity of Zeebrugge: Monitors "Erebus" and "Terror."

To attend on monitors, &c.: "Termagant," "Truculent," and "Manly."

Outer Patrol off Zeebrugge: "Attentive," "Scott," "Ulleswater," "Teazer," and "Stork."

 

(c.) At Dunkirk.

 

Monitors for bombarding Ostend: "Marshal Soult,". "Lord Clive," "Prince Eugene," "General Craufurd," M.24, M.26 and M.21"

For operating off Ostend: "Swift," "Faulknor," "Matchless," "Mastiff," and "Afridi."

The British destroyers "Mentor,"  "Lightfoot," "Zubian," and French "Lestin," "Roux," and "Bouclier," to accompany the monitors.

Eighteen British motor launches, numbers 11, 16, 17, 22, 23, 30, 60, 105, 254, 274, 276, 279, 283, 429, 512, 532, 551, 556, engaged in smoke-screening duty inshore and rescue work, and six for attending on big monitors.

Four French T.B's and four French Motor Launches, numbers 1, 2, 33, and 34, attending on "M.24," "M.26" and "M.21".

Coastal motor boats (40 feet), numbers 2, 4, 10, and 12; (55 feet) 19 and 20.

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seaJane

Thanks, Dom, I think you've just saved me several e-mails!

 

sJ

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Carl Hunter

Thank you both, have finally been able to establish some of what Lt Horace Stone was not involved in!

 

Much obliged for the diligent work.

 

Carl

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