Ken Lees Posted 12 November , 2018 Share Posted 12 November , 2018 Over the Remembrance weekend I visited the site of an Australian VC action at Proyart, I had done a fair amount of research into the action and the advance of the battalion in the days leading up to the action, and today have started to do a little more. This has lead to two discoveries. Firstly, I believe I know the identity of an Australian soldier of the 40th Bn. buried in Heath Cemetery, Harbonnieres. During the enquiries I made into this soldier, I had narrowed down the possible identity of the man in this grave to two men, then discovered one of the two was noted in his service papers as having been buried in a communal cemetery extension some distance away from Heath Cemetery. So, I think I have a case for putting forward the two names to the CWGC so that the one in Heath Cemetery can have his headstone changed for one with his name on, and the other for a "known to be buried in this cemetery" headstone. Can anyone tell me how I go about putting the cases together for presentation to the CWGC? Thanks, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughton Posted 21 December , 2018 Share Posted 21 December , 2018 (edited) Ken: You can see the reports that I have submitted to the CWGC, which is based on a process that evolved through interaction with the David Avery team at the CWGC. You are also welcome to use the master report that we have defined. F7 C10 Master Reports The reports that I have done are in two different groups, as the process in Canada is different than in the UK and so it may also differ in the other commonwealth countries. If outside Canada, I just use the UK process and let the CWGC sort out the process. http://laughton.ca/publications/unknown-project/ I am happy to assist on any aspect, just ask. Just to check - it it Private Hart that you are investigating? See here: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/266046-correction-report-7th-bn-aif-on-menin-gate-memorial-instead-of-villers-bretonneux-memorial/ Richard Edited 21 December , 2018 by laughton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew pugh Posted 22 December , 2018 Share Posted 22 December , 2018 Hi Richard Four years ago I found myself in a similar situation as yourself regarding the possible identification of a soldier of the H L I. I put all my evidence together and sent it to Mr David Avery of the enquiries section at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.They would then look at that evidence and check their own records. If in their view they deem it to be a strong case they will the pass it on to the National Army Museum who will then check their records, Once again if they think it has strong evidence they then pass it on to the M.O.D (JCCC) department at Imjin Barracks near Gloucester who will read through "all" the evidence and make an adjudication on the overall evidence of the case. They will the contact you to say whether you have been successful or not.The process takes a bit of time to conclude, but it also gives you more time in case you come across any additional evidence to support your case.They say patience is a virtue.I was successful with my case and managed to identify an unknown of the 2nd H L I. Corporal Thomas Houston MM and bar killed 24/03/1918. I have 5 cases on the go at the momentso i am getting very familiar with the process. The C W G C will issue you a case number in the beginning of the process. Good Luck to you i hope you are successful. Merry Christmas. Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 10 January , 2019 Share Posted 10 January , 2019 Why not ask the Australian Authority of equivalent to JCCC? https://www.army.gov.au/our-work/unrecovered-war-casualties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 10 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 January , 2019 40 minutes ago, CheeseTV said: Why not ask the Australian Authority of equivalent to JCCC? https://www.army.gov.au/our-work/unrecovered-war-casualties Because, as a result if the previous replies to my post, I can see that the matter is already in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 11 January , 2019 Share Posted 11 January , 2019 In November 2017 I submitted a case to OAWG/CWGC regarding the unknown 40th Bn AIF grave in Heath Cemetery. Unfortunately they have not as yet responded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 11 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 11 January , 2019 11 hours ago, Andrew P said: In November 2017 I submitted a case to OAWG/CWGC regarding the unknown 40th Bn AIF grave in Heath Cemetery. Unfortunately they have not as yet responded Does it normally take that long, Andrew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickaren Posted 12 January , 2019 Share Posted 12 January , 2019 On 11/01/2019 at 05:58, Andrew P said: In November 2017 I submitted a case to OAWG/CWGC regarding the unknown 40th Bn AIF grave in Heath Cemetery. Unfortunately they have not as yet responded I have just received a case no. from CWGC for one submitted at the beginning of December, so about 5-6 weeks. I would contact them to see if they received your case. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughton Posted 12 January , 2019 Share Posted 12 January , 2019 I checked the list yesterday and it was Case 454 if you are talking about Heath grave 1.F.17. I am not allowed to publish the list but can look up cases and answer questions as to whether a case has been submitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 12 January , 2019 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2019 8 hours ago, laughton said: I checked the list yesterday and it was Case 454 if you are talking about Heath grave 1.F.17. I am not allowed to publish the list but can look up cases and answer questions as to whether a case has been submitted. Yes, that's the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 13 January , 2019 Share Posted 13 January , 2019 On 12/01/2019 at 01:51, Ken Lees said: Does it normally take that long, Andrew? Hi Ken Australian cases now go via Office of Australian War Graves and Unrecovered War Casualties section of the Australian Army, then on to CWGC. We have submitted about 70 cases to CWGC since 2014, 20 have been successful but still waiting on answers for about 50. there's normally a bit of time to wait in getting a yes or no to a submission. cheers andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becstar Posted 13 January , 2019 Share Posted 13 January , 2019 (edited) Hi Ken For a Headstone change/ identity confirmation the backlog at the UWC-Army is around 8-9 months before it’ll get looked at. Complex cases can take up to two years. Headstone Change decisions are made in-house (although still go to the CWGC if a case is compelling for CWGC nod of approval), Headstone Change submissions don’t go before an Identity Board as complex cases do. Andrew is the guru though I’ve been told. 😀 (I’m guessing that’s the Andrew I think it is, your name was mentioned to me, all positive of course!) Bec Edited 13 January , 2019 by Becstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 30 August , 2020 Author Share Posted 30 August , 2020 I visited Heath Cemetery again this week. Still no change to the headstone believed to be Hart. Over two years since it was brought to the attention of the authorities. Can anyone tell me how we chase this up for an update? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrenchrat22 Posted 30 August , 2020 Share Posted 30 August , 2020 1 hour ago, Ken Lees said: I visited Heath Cemetery again this week. Still no change to the headstone believed to be Hart. Over two years since it was brought to the attention of the authorities. Can anyone tell me how we chase this up for an update? Send them an email, asking for an update. What’s the harm in that I was advised back in October 2018, that a case I had submitted had been sent to the service authorities. I just wait for the email or the letter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 30 August , 2020 Author Share Posted 30 August , 2020 5 hours ago, thetrenchrat22 said: Send them an email, asking for an update. What’s the harm in that I was advised back in October 2018, that a case I had submitted had been sent to the service authorities. I just wait for the email or the letter It wasn't my enquiry that was submitted, so I don't think it would be appropriate for me to ask, plus I don't know who to e-mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrenchrat22 Posted 31 August , 2020 Share Posted 31 August , 2020 3 hours ago, Ken Lees said: It wasn't my enquiry that was submitted, so I don't think it would be appropriate for me to ask, plus I don't know who to e-mail. While the CWGC website shows that it is under investigation and we will have to wait and see. This is case number 454 and I have case number‘s in the 300’s and early 400’s. I’m still waiting on those cases and were submitted back in 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew pugh Posted 2 September , 2020 Share Posted 2 September , 2020 Hi thetrenchrat22 I think the N A M is the place where the cases become bogged down, because there is only one lady working on the cases for identification. And I think they give priority to ww2 cases where a body has been discovered and identified. Patience is a Virtue so they say. on average they take 2 to 3 years approximately from start to finish for re dedications. Correct me if I am wrong. Kind Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrenchrat22 Posted 3 September , 2020 Share Posted 3 September , 2020 Andrew, I do believe that there is only 1 person at the NAM, who are working these cases. Also, I have been informed that they are now working on cases received in 2017. as for the timeline 2 to 3 years is very ambitious. As a case I submitted in 2017, was accepted by the NAM and JCCC in early 2019 and the rededication took place in June 2019. The case with the next number, after the case mentioned above was also mine, submitted around the same time. I was advised in November 2019, that the case had been forwarded by the CWGC to the NAM. So each case is different and is unquestionably will be take it’s own length of time to be completed, if each stage is accepted along the way. A case I submitted in 2014 was rejected, but I submitted it again in 2017, about a 2 months before the cases mentioned above and was finally accepted in March 2019 and the rededication was due to take place in March 2020 but did not take place, due to the current climate. if I remember, that the rededication services are organised so that they have a group of them from the same Regiment / Corps. The one in June 2019, was 3 officers and men from a Welsh Regiment. A rededication for a RWF Soldier on the Tuesday on the Somme, a burial of an Unknown Soldier from the South Wales Borderers on the Wednesday morning and in the afternoon a rededication for a RWF Captain. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew pugh Posted 4 September , 2020 Share Posted 4 September , 2020 Hi Alan Thanks for replying.There was supposed to be a re-dedication service in Bancourt British Cemetery for a soldier that identified on the 24/03/2020 but that was cancelled because of the virus. But since then I have been successful with another soldier who was killed on the same day and is buried in Delsaux Farm Cemetery about 2 mile away from Bancourt. I think they may be rescheduled for 24/03/2021. It will be a busy day if that is the case. Thankfully there are several family members attending. I don't know about you but I find doing this a very rewarding thing to do so family members can have closure. Family members of one soldier had tried to find out what had happened to their Grandfather with no luck. When I found them and explained what I had done they were absolutely blown away on hearing the news, and cannot wait for March to come.That's the icing on the cake for me. Kind Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrenchrat22 Posted 5 September , 2020 Share Posted 5 September , 2020 Andy, on the same day in 2020, James Mclean was due for a rededication ceremony at Fosse 7 Cemetery and i had no problems with the family as the Great Nephew of James, is a work colleague of mine. James Mclean was brought to the attention of the CWGC in 1998 and added to the Le Touret Memorial in 2000. when we asked for the details of the person who brought the details of James, to there attention but they could not tell us, due to data protection but they did remark that 'that the person will be known to my colleague'. Scotland is a large place, so all we can guess from this, it had to be a family member who sent the case to the CWGC in 1998 as James had 9 brother and sisters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T, Fazzini Posted 6 September , 2020 Share Posted 6 September , 2020 Case for In From the Cold? http://infromthecold.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrenchrat22 Posted 6 September , 2020 Share Posted 6 September , 2020 4 hours ago, T, Fazzini said: Case for In From the Cold? http://infromthecold.org/ You have ‘Case for In From the Cold’ on post’s, on this post and 5 others, which are not the type of cases IFTC People will deal with or look at. please can you explain, why you have done this. Have you actually read, each of the 6 posts, you will see they are either have been accepted or currently been looked at the authorities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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