Remembrance in the future

[Gunga Din]

The endurance of the remembrance of Wars in the national psyche will be heavily influenced by the visual media.

 

I suspect WWII will prove to be the more enduring for one simple reason: it has attracted much greater focus in the film media. WWII is seen as the 'just' War of political ideologies  - the Americans are always fighting 'Nazis' rather than Germans - and the Great War is seen as the 'futile' War and has consequently drawn less commercial focus from film makers. The visual media is significantly more successful than print media for implanting 'information' or 'knowledge'. Popular perceptions of historical events have been shaped throughout history by visual media (Shakespeare's versions of history for example).

 

Films such as The Dambusters (don't mention the dog), The Battle of Britain, The Longest Day, A Bridge too Far, Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan, Pearl Harbour, Dunkirk, Downfall, Darkest Hour and hundreds more WWII themed films have relatively fewer rivals  - by number and quality - in the genre of the Great War films when measured by popular appeal (Box office receipts). With the notable exception of Peter Jackson's recent production, the centenary years have produced very few blockbuster films on the Great War. Only Spielberg's romanticised War Horse (released three years before the centenary in 2011) really springs to mind - incidentally the highest grossing WWI film at US$177m. Saving Private Ryan made US$482m. Dunkirk, despite its UK focus made US$527m - the highest grossing WWII film making nearly three times the box office takings of War Horse

 

Edit. Lawrence of Arabia (1969) and All Quiet on the Western Front (1930) are notable by their dates. I would add Journey's End (but not a success at the box office) to the Great War list  and the iconic Casablanca (1942) to the WWII list. One wonders how many people below the age of 18 have seen any of these films. 

 

Glancing at lists of most popular War films is interesting. In the US there are many competing factions from the ACW, hardly anything on the Great War, lots on WWII, Vietnam and the Gulf Wars. American Sniper (2014) made US$547m making it the highest grossing War Film to date - just 4% more than Dunkirk. 

 

I suspect in the UK the War of Remembrance will be fought and won or lost in the Cinema and on TV as more and more of the future generations gather their knowledge from screens rather than books.

 

GD

Edited 12 November , 2018 by Gunga Din

[phil andrade]

GD,

 

Great comments, and interesting box office figures.

 

Doesn’t the perception of futility play a large part in the marketing of Great War films ?

 

AQOWF, Gallipoli, Regeneration etc....futility sells in that genre.

 

Phil

 

 

[Gunga Din]

38 minutes ago, phil andrade said:

Doesn’t the perception of futility play a large part in the marketing of Great War films ?

AQOWF, Gallipoli, Regeneration etc....futility sells in that genre.

Phil

 

The film Gallipoli only made US$ 6m in the US.... it raises questions on the viability of making a War Film that does not appeal the dominant US market. As

mentioned above the US is a crowded space for war films - and I think the Great War is the conflict they have least interest in. If one adds to that the extra hurdle of a so-called "Side Show", it makes it rather difficult commercial prospect.. 

 

The film U 571 shows that the US is not adverse to re-writing history. Something else to consider. 

 

The last point I would make is that the Great War might now be considered as having been 'done' by film makers. The opportunity to ride the centenary wave has now passed. Time and tide and commercial opportunity wait for no man. 

 

GD

Edited 12 November , 2018 by Gunga Din

[Toby Brayley]

From a Museums perspective it has been interesting, there was a huge Tsunami of interest in 1914, we were simply swamped by requests, general interest and visits . Even more so than in 2012 when, for better or worse, Warhorse was released. I was working in a Cavalry Museum at the time, and as you can guess 90% of the interest was to do with the horses! 

 

in 2015 it almost went back to normal, 2016 was even more hectic than 2014, with what I diagnose as "Somme Syndrome". Yet another lull in 2017. The latter half of 2018 has been totally manic with a focus 11.11 more than anything. 

 

Although I mention the "lulls" of 2015 and 2017 there was still a massive focus on the Great War and interest has been well above what it ever was prior to the start of the Centenary. SO much so that pretty much everything else has been put on the back burner for the last 4 years. 

 

Dealing with members of the public on the subject on a regular basis, in and out of work, I think the Great War holds a special place (mainly generated by myth) in the psyche of the nation. 

 

Whilst I do think that interest will drop off significantly, I do not think that it will fade away to the obscurity of Waterloo and dare I say it the 2nd Anglo Boer War.  I do think that the wave created by the Centenary Commemorations will continue for sometime yet...for better or worse! 

 

My next challenge  is an exhibition is to get people interested in the almost *cliche alert* Forgotten (forgive me, yes I said it)  aftermath, the Military Police "Policing the Peace" with British Army of Occupation and the Allied Police Commission in Constantinople. 

 

Regards

Toby  

Edited 12 November , 2018 by Toby Brayley

[Steven Broomfield]

Can I suggest, sorrowfully, that Toby should have his epaulettes and buttons removed for using the expression '11.11', which has, surely, to be an even more utterly vile Americanism than 'World War One'.

[Norrette]

So long as people hold on to physical photographs and letters and pass them down the generations, interest will spark up again as newer family members ask - who is this?  - That's how I started. 

I now wonder if I do write everything up - that the thrill of the chase, the thrill of finding out, won't be there for the next enthusiast.
 

Perhaps I should leave a treasure trail?

[phil andrade]

The focus might change from the national to the regional.  I know that this has been going on for some time, but the thing will, I believe, be more and more the modus operandi of remembrance.

 

This seems to be what’s happening in so many aspects of our lives now : whether it be the huge growth in micro breweries, or the insistence on locally sourced food, so I suspect the remembrance of the Great War might evolve this way.

 

Take that astonishingly meticulous research into the men from Western Australia who died on the Western Front : this was the theme of a thread on the Western Front section of the forum a couple of weeks ago.  This exemplifies what I’m driving at here.

 

Local community might be the jumping off point for commemorative affairs on an increasing scale.

 

Phil

[Toby Brayley]

4 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

Can I suggest, sorrowfully, that Toby should have his epaulettes and buttons removed for using the expression '11.11', which has, surely, to be an even more utterly vile Americanism than 'World War One'.

 

 Exactly why I used it :-P  

 

 

[Muerrisch]

I would like to draw a distinction between on the one hand "remembrance" and "commemoration", and on the other "remembering" and "interest".

The former require some sort of effort, mental or physical, the latter needs only a couch potato.

 

Disagreeing with Gunga Din, the films he cites can surely serve the latter but may well fail to stimulate the former. Films in the main are to make money by entertaining, and artistic licence is claimed shamelessly. I except three old films and one new one from this dismissal. These surely stimulated remembrance and commemoration in some. They are Zulu, The Dam Busters, and Enigma. The new one may be "They shall not grow old", a cringeworthy misquote but a bold effort.

 

Thanks to all for the interest.

8 minutes ago, Toby Brayley said:

 

 Exactly why I used it :-P  

 

 

I thought Steven did irony. Perhaps lack of train travel has dimmed his reflexes.

[Steven Broomfield]

1 hour ago, Muerrisch said:

 

I thought Steven did irony. Perhaps lack of train travel has dimmed his reflexes.

 

I was too shocked to think straight.

[phil andrade]

DP

Edited 12 November , 2018 by phil andrade

[Toby Brayley]

14 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

I would like to draw a distinction between on the one hand "remembrance" and "commemoration", and on the other "remembering" and "interest".

The former require some sort of effort, mental or physical, the latter needs only a couch potato.

 

 

Very true! But I do still think that the Great War will be at the forefront of Remembrance for years to come, especially off the back of the commemorations. With the 80th Anniversary of the start of the 2nd World War rapidly approaching it will be interesting to see if the Great War will take a "back seat" between 2019 and 2025. 

 

regards

Toby

Edited 13 November , 2018 by Toby Brayley