Third pattern late war British greatcoat

[David A Porter]

Hi 

I am looking for some help with the so called last pattern end of war greatcoat. I’ve recently acquired one (I hope) from a reputable source (I hope) I can’t seem to find any images of this coat. I was told the last pattern was produced in the last half of 1918. My coat has no closure button under the stand up collar has a partial dirty white lining in the back and full length down both sleeves and inside pockets. The coat has no rear split up the seam and the adjustable rear belt only has two GS buttons. It does have in the bottom inside left corner the remains of a waxed red paper label plus a American customer stamp. Does anyone think this is WW1 or inter war. 

Thank 

David

[mark holden]

Hi David,

 

If it was the one sold at auction last week I saw it but could not make up my mind. The liner looks to be more extensive than the 1918 patterns I have seen illustrated   in the late Joe Sweeney's article in Militaria magazine. A positive sign is the US costume stamp as I am led to believe a lot of WW1 surplus uniforms ended up in such places.

 

Regards

 

MARK

[David A Porter]

Hi Mark

 

Thanks for getting back. The American stamp is by the Western costume company of Hollywood found them on the net and in there history it states that the company started in 1912 and after the fall of the Austro Hungarian empire the owner of the company was shooting a picture involving military dress uniforms so came over to Europe and brought loads of original uniforms apparently he wanted authenticity. 

 

Regards David

[Grovetown]

First, there is no issue with the US costumier's stamp as these are not unusual in genuine period service dress. I have had SD trousers - superfluously stamped 'original' - from Paramount Studios; and a Simplified SD jacket with the Western stamp as above.

 

And the auction house, while not perfect, isn't bad at calling out things they think are late or spurious.

Second, details of the differences between the 1915 and 1918 greatcoat are scarce - Joe thought it mostly related to the lining. The next iteration was in the 1930s and, again, I don't have the details. In the absence of a period paper label, I'd want a WD stamp of the correct letters-over-numbers format.

 

Third, the film stock uniforms are often modified - not least for fit - so it's possible that the rear vent has been sewn up, rather than omitted. Although it's hard to tell from the photos, I had wondered if the shoulder straps had been replaced?

 

Finally, and at risk of appearing rude, I'm always a bit surprised by people who buy things and then try to identify them or establish authenticity after the fact. But that's another conversation.

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

[David A Porter]

Hi GT

Thanks for getting back.  Tried to get to the auction to check it out was unable to make it. But as auction houses go it is one of the better ones. Done a bit of research since things kind of add up still quite difficult finding information in books and the net on the 1918 pattern. Totally agree on the issue with the shoulder straps.

Thanks for your help

 

David

[Andrew Upton]

Round and round...

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-EXTREMELY-RARE-British-Army-3rd-Pattern-Other-Ranks-GREAT-COAT-/254007802515?hash=item3b240b7a93

[Grovetown]

So young, and yet so cynical...

[Andrew Upton]

3 hours ago, Grovetown said:

So young, and yet so cynical...

 

Saves time .

 

The extra pictures do at least confirm it isn't a British greatcoat...

[David A Porter]

Hi Andrew 

if the Greatcoat is not British what nationality is it. Do you have any information on the third pattern. The greatcoat on eBay is very similar to the one I have. The only info I have is that the western costume company after WW1 went over to Europe and purchased many original uniforms. 

Thanks for getting involved 

regards David 

[Spook1940]

The Greatcoat itself is Canadian, bearing the standard Canadian WD stamp (Crows foot circled by an arrow).

[Andrew Upton]

21 hours ago, David A Porter said:

Hi Andrew 

if the Greatcoat is not British what nationality is it. Do you have any information on the third pattern. The greatcoat on eBay is very similar to the one I have. The only info I have is that the western costume company after WW1 went over to Europe and purchased many original uniforms. 

Thanks for getting involved 

regards David 

 

As noted above, it is Canadian. A lot of Canadian made WW1 greatcoats appear to have ended up in the American film costuming industry after WW1. Most WW1 Canadian greatcoats were made without epaulettes, and the costuming used ones have generally had epaulettes added to make them appear more like the British pattern (as in the "Ebay" example - note the roughly finished edges compared to the rest of the coat, plus they are not even fully set into the shoulder, merely tacked on). The other key giveaway is the Canadian examples only used two buttons to close the belt on the reverse, as opposed to the British using three buttons:

 

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/cef/tunics/ceft11.htm

 

 

Edited 12 December , 2018 by Andrew Upton