Interpreter no.311 Belgium mission

[nilis11]

I just found out that my Belgium great uncle was an interpreter for the British forces. He joined the Belgium Army in London and was sent over to the western front, Ypers and Poperinge, in 1917. His name was Fernand Guillaume. We knew him as Uncle Bill.  He picked up the name during that time. His name tag mentions his number 311. Any ideas how to research him?

[ForeignGong]

There is a MIC for F Guillaume, where he is enquiring about a BWM dated 28.6.20, but the card does not have e reference No or any other notations where you would usually see them. I can not find a medal roll for him.

[nilis11]

On 06/11/2018 at 00:39, ForeignGong said:

There is a MIC for F Guillaume, where he is enquiring about a BWM dated 28.6.20, but the card does not have e reference No or any other notations where you would usually see them. I can not find a medal roll for him.

I found his dossier in Brussels. No mention of a BWM. How can you tell he made this request? 

[corisande]

it is on MIC

 

[Keith_history_buff]

Do bear in mind that the MIC documents a request for a medal, not necessarily that the request was humoured. 

You could only get a medal as a foreign national if you had served as a civilian in a medical capacity. There are MICs for Belgian Army translators and French Army translators asking for medals, and they are rebuffed, given they are foreign nationals serving in a foreign army.

On the subject of Belgian service records, I see there are two possibilities in the database:
 

Name	Given Name	Date of Birth	Place of Birth	Unit	Type	Mil.Nr.	File
GUILLAUME	Fernand C. L.	29/03/84	Jodoigne	Troupes d'tapes	Dossiers Troep	182	6255106
GUILLAUME	Fernand L. J. G.	11/09/79	Auvelais	Ligne	Dossiers Troep	113.18877	6255107

[Keith_history_buff]

There were considerably more French interpreters than there were Belgian. The MIC for the following French interpreter Henri Becquerel, applying for a 1914 Star, is of interest.  It appears this got flagged as a policy issue, on how to deal with similar requests from French Military Mission interpreters

 

Quote

See:-French Officials (E.D.)
French Official Interpreters posted to British units in France - Eligibility for 1914 Star 14-5-19


Ineligible for 1914 Star (Foreign Nationality)
Auth: 0144/5504 Min 3

Henri Becquerel
French Official Interpreter
French Army, posted to units: 7th General Hospital & 2nd Red Cross Hospital [Rouen]
Address: British Legation, Buenos Aires

 

[Keith_history_buff]

I take it that he was the older of the two men listed, born 1879?

[corisande]

2 hours ago, Keith_history_buff said:

I take it that he was the older of the two men listed, born 1879?

 

Do we know that the man in post#1 is either of these

 

I can pick up bits on marriage and divorce of the two men above, but I have no idea if they are the OP g-uncle

 

Does the OP have any info on "Uncle Bill's" age, place of birth, date of birth, did he marry and if so to whom, and was he divorced, when and where did he die

 

If nothing is known on any of these questions, then would have to be via military records. And we have not been able to find anything in British records

[nilis11]

My great uncle Bill is the first. Born in Jodoigne 29/3/1884. Full name Fernand Constant Leopold Guillaume. He was married twice as far as I know. His first wife was named Bourillon and his second wife was named van Elk. His medals are somewhere in the family but I haven't seen them yet. 

Interestingly his military dossier mentions he was interpreter for the British at the General Headquarters in the Ypers sector. I suppose that is Chateau de Lovie in Proven. 

[corisande]

Fernand Constant Leopold Guillaume

Netherlands, Archival Indexes, Vital Records

Name	Fernand Constant Leopold Guillaume
Event Type	Divorce
Event Date	03 Aug 1926
Event Place	's-Gravenhage, Zuid-Holland, Nederland
Event Place	's-Gravenhage
Spouse's Name	Marie Eugénie Bourillon

[nilis11]

The story I was told that the divorce was intended years earlier but due to the war and administrative difficulties he waited till long after. My aunt,  his daughter, was from his second marriage. 

[corisande]

Could this be him arriving London on 7 Jul 1914 in SRMS Kenilworth Castle. Right age. Been living in Belgian Congo

 

[nilis11]

Yes that must be him. He was sent to Cairo Egypt by his parents to work for the Royal Bank of Egypt, later sent to Abysinnia and from there to Congo. I believe he came from Congo to London later during the war. May 1917 or about according to his military record. 

29 minutes ago, corisande said:

Could this be him arriving London on 7 Jul 1914 in SRMS Kenilworth Castle. Right age. Been living in Belgian Congo

 

I did not know that he arrived in a London before the war. So I assume he returned to the Congo later. 

[Keith_history_buff]

His correspondence address on the medal index card, dated 28 June 1920 is
1242 rue Neuve, Brussels

Three scenarios:

1. If a Lieutenant Interpreter of the British Army were to serve with the Belgians, and were to apply for a Oorlogs herinnerins medaille 1914–1918 (BWM equivalent), such a request would not be accepted, given that said man is not a Belgian national.
2. If a Lieutenant Interpreter of the British Army were to serve with the French, and were to apply for a Médaille Commémorative de la Guerre (BWM equivalent), the request would be accepted. This medal was awarded to any military member for service between 2 August 1914 and November 11, 1918. It applied to all foreign soldiers and sailors who served under French authority or aboard a French ship, such as interpreters.
3. If a Flemish native-speaking member of the Belgian Army's Corps des Interprètes were to serve with the French, and were to apply for a Médaille Commémorative de la Guerre (BWM equivalent), the request would be accepted, for the reasons mentioned above.

This may explain why a speculative request for medals was sent to the War Office by a number of Belgians, some of whom were interpreters, and some who were not.

[JWK]

From Delpher, 100 million Dutch newspapers/magazines/books digitalised and searchable, from 1700 or thereabouts:

 

The summons issued to Marie Eugenie Bourillon, address unknown, that she is to be present at a hearing, and that the marriage concluded on 14 May 1907 in Addis Abeba/Ethiopia is to be dissolved.

Fernand lives in Amsterdam, but a few months later he lives in Antwerp

 

The separation:

 

 

 

[JWK]

And here for his resident card in Amsterdam, arrived 11 december 1925 from Antwerp, left for Antwerp 15 march 1926.

Lived at de Lairessestraat nr 119 hs  [house, which is ground-floor]

[Keith_history_buff]

I am now hooked, and eagerly await more about the biography of Fernand Guillaume. I find it interesting that although born in the Walloon area of Brabant, and clearly with a French name, he spent time in the Netherlands, and his second wife was a non-Francophone native speaker.

[nilis11]

Thanks for finding these. I am getting small pieces of information about him through the family. Find attached a photo of Fernand Guillaume at the age about 18 or so. Later in his life uncle Bill was known for his big American cars. I do not have the dod. What I know is that his second wife, my great aunt, came from an Amsterdam family. As a young girl she lived in Paris and became an opera singer, especially in Ghent and Antwerp. She was in London during WW1 and was a regular in the better circles. She organized a benefit in the Hotel Cecil in London for a Belgian artist. 

Her name was Louise van Elk but her stage name was Louise Devaudrey which is a reference to her father's name: De Voogd. 

[nilis11]

[Marilyne]

On ‎14‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 00:38, Keith_history_buff said:

I am now hooked, and eagerly await more about the biography of Fernand Guillaume. I find it interesting that although born in the Walloon area of Brabant, and clearly with a French name, he spent time in the Netherlands, and his second wife was a non-Francophone native speaker.

 

Well Jodoigne is in the French speaking part, but not so deep in... The closest main cities to Jodoigne are Leuven and Tienen, both Flemish and the language border is only a stone throw away.

What I find even more interesting is that the marriage was celebrated in Ethiopia. Why? how did they come there? Were they married by Belgian law? and if yes, how can a Dutch judge then declare the divorce?? Administrative issues aside, I think there's a lot more behind the story... and I'm hooked too now ... Fernand might just be the kind of character I could write into a story !!

 

M.

[nilis11]

I will have to talk to my aunt again soon to see if she can tell me more about her father. Earlier she told me that he was sent to Cairo by his parents at the age of 18 or 19 to work for the Royal Bank of Egypt. Later to Ethiopia when the bank opened there ca 1909. There he met the daughter of the hotel owner where he stayed. He had to marry her(!?) because it was the descent thing to do. The family went to the Congo from there. 

And apparently he spoke very good Greek.  I have no idea where he learned that. 

[JWK]

A Belgian, married in Addis Abeba, divorced in Amsterdam, and the divorce is registered in the Hague 5 months later ?

As far as I can see they never lived there. Indeed stuff for a book.

Anyway the divorce registration only says that they're divorced:

(From Digitale Stamboom Den Haag , and the divorce certificate is scan nr 134, series C )

 

[JulianR]

There is also a FCL Guilluame with an address of 126 Lurline Gardens Battersea in the London Post Office Directory for 1920.

 

Some thoughts, would the Belgian Consulate have had the authority to conduct the marriage in Addis Ababa or was in done by the local priest?

 

I will assume that he was Catholic, dangerous I know, but if so was the divorce in the Netherlands because it was a Protestant country and possibly easier to obtain?   

 

As he spoke Greek, where did he go to school?  In the UK at that time being taught both Ancient Greek and Latin at a good school would have been normal, was Belgium different?

 

I get the feeling that he was well educated and from a good family, having a job in bank where he was sent overseas at an early age indicates that.

 

Julian

[nilis11]

On 12/12/2018 at 21:42, corisande said:

Could this be him arriving London on 7 Jul 1914 in SRMS Kenilworth Castle. Right age. Been living in Belgian Congo

 

Is the date correct? According to my aunt he went to London to volunteer in the Belgium army in 1915 or later. So 1914 before the outbrake of the war is odd. Also the given occupation is strange: driver? He was high up in the bank of Congo-Belge in Leopoldsstad Congo. 

[nilis11]

Belgian interpreter with the British forces Fernand Guillaume in his uniform. He volunteered to join the Belgian Army to fight the Germans. He got in taking his brothers place. He chose to fight on Belgian soil and didn't join the Belgian army in the Congo where he lived at that time. Note the lions on the collar: indicating corps d'interpretes.