asking help research english troops in Le Meillard and Frohen Le Grand 1916

[legris]

Good afternoon

 

we are from France and we are in research of troops/battalions wich settled in Frohen Le Grand and Le Meillard ( Somme) in 1916, is there someone able to help us ?

Thanks a lot for all sort of help and advice

Forgive my english, hoping it ll be clear enough

Kind regards

M Legris

 

1 minute ago, legris said:

Good afternoon

 

we are from France and we are in research of troops/battalions which settled in Frohen Le Grand and Le Meillard ( Somme) in 1916, is there someone able to help us ?

Thanks a lot for all sort of help and advice

Forgive my english, hoping it ll be clear enough

Kind regards

M Legris

 

 

[Colin W Taylor]

M Legris,

 

There are likely two types of units that might have been in these villages:

 

1 - Those who might have been based there whilst they worked in the Lines of Communication - transport, supply or HQ units, training schools etc. 

2 - Those that might have stayed short periods whilst travelling through or stayed temporarily on rest between battles.

 

I'd suggest searching through the war diaries database on Ancestry.com - you can search by location and that should show you which - I believe they have a free trial this weekend.  This link shows the numerous search results just for 'Frohen' - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/ukwardiarieswwi/?event=_frohen . The number suggests lots of units passing through.  

 

Are you interested in a particular time period.

 

I hope this is of some assistance.

 

Kind regards

 

Colin

[legris]

Good evening Mr Taylor

I ve just read your message

thanks so much for your information, please do accept my excuses, I feel very sorry about my very late answer, I do some sporadic researches as

my english is not good enough and I don't get much time to do it , I help my father in a family affair.

thanks again for your response

 

I will check the track you send in a while

 

I ve found that a rifle brigade might have been in the area of Frohen Le Grand

https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/units/297/rifle-brigade/

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=frohen+le+grand&pageSize=

 

 

My research is about a soldier who had a serious affair with a french woman, there had been prooves which had been destroyed by the french family.

They had had a baby girl ( my grand mother ), it is said that that soldier had chosen her name: Suzanne. Unfortunatly he died at the very beginning of november 1917 around Arras. Suzanne was born in july 1917.

 

Thanks to   https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead   and your link, I may cross informations ( the place, the period: soldiers around Frohen in august/ december 1916 and the dead soldiers at the very beginning of november 1917, they were "not so many" in comparison with april 1917)

 

Thanks for your help

Hope my english will clear enough

Kind regards

Maylis Ardouin Legris

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Colin W Taylor]

Maylis,

 

Not a problem; your English is far better than my French!  Would your British biological great grandfather not be recorded on an official birth certificate for your grandmother?

 

Depending on the date your grandmother was born I presume the soldier was in the area in October 1916; knowing her exact birth date might narrow this down a little more.  There was a lot of fighting in November 1917 which might make this difficult to track down. In late 1916 a lot of units were moving around behind the lines having come out to rest after the Battle of the Somme; a number of units might have gone through the area in a month alone.

 

Kind regards

 

Colin

 

 

Attempting with Google Translate: 

 

Pas de problème; ton anglais est bien meilleur que mon français! Votre arrière-grand-père biologique britannique ne figurerait-il pas sur un certificat de naissance officiel de votre grand-mère?



Selon la date de naissance de votre grand-mère, je présume que le soldat était dans la région en octobre 1916; Le fait de connaître sa date de naissance exacte pourrait le réduire un peu plus. Il y a eu beaucoup de combats en novembre 1917, ce qui pourrait rendre la tâche difficile. À la fin de 1916, de nombreuses unités se déplaçaient derrière les lignes après s'être mises au repos après la bataille de la Somme. un certain nombre d'unités pourraient avoir traversé la région en un mois seulement.



Sincères amitiés

 

Pas de problème; ton anglais est bien meilleur que mon français! Votre arrière-grand-père biologique britannique ne figurerait-il pas sur un certificat de naissance officiel de votre grand-mère? Selon la date de naissance de votre grand-mère, je présume que le soldat était dans la région en octobre 1916; Le fait de connaître sa date de naissance exacte pourrait le réduire un peu plus. Il y a eu beaucoup de combats en novembre 1917, ce qui pourrait rendre la tâche difficile. À la fin de 1916, de nombreuses unités se déplaçaient derrière les lignes après s'être mises au repos après la bataille de la Somme. un certain nombre d'unités pourraient avoir traversé la région en un mois seulement. Sincères amitiés

[Colin W Taylor]

Maylis,

 

Please find attached two rough lists of mentions of Frohen and Meillard in the Ancestry.co.uk war diary collection and a list of war dead from early November 1917 (exact dates if known might help) filtered to cemeteries and memorials I know to be in the vicinity of Arras (assuming he was killed and buried near the town and not died of wounds elsewhere).

 

Cross checking these lists might possibly assist in narrowing down the list of possibles.  A lot of London Regiment and East Yorkshire Regiment soldiers are on the latter list - other battalions of these regiments were in the area of the villages in question - however, soldiers did move between different battalions and regiments during the war making this an in-exact activity.

 

I hope this helps

 

Kind re gards

 

Colin   

CasualtySearch_08_04_2019_08_54.csv

[legris]

On 11/04/2019 at 08:41, legris said:

 

 

On 11/04/2019 at 08:41, legris said:

Good evening Mr Taylor

thanks a lot for your help, that s very interesting.

 

The father hadn't been recorded on the official birth certificate, the baby had been recorded the day she had been born, the father wasn't there ( july 9, 1917)

Some pages of the family record book had been torn out.

My father had tried to get information on several occasions : no way .

That were hard days and harsh people in that area.

My grand mother's  mother knew the name but never talked. Another war occured in 1939. It was better to keep the mouth shut I suppose. Then life went on, she worked for her future. The mother kept the secret. 

My  father have just told me something funny : my great grand mother didn't speak english yet she used to call her dogs "miss" and he told me that that soldier died with a picture of my grand mother. I m wondering how a photographer could have had a time  to do this at that period

We have other small anecdotes 

My father is even ready to do a dna research one day.

 

We know it isn't an easy task. We plan to have a look on the Ancestry.co.uk war diary collection and your list, we ll take a confortable time to check

If we manage to get a short list, it will be a good thing.

 

I have 13 possible names in Arras memorial for example

need to check  other possible cemeteries too

We have time and stubborness so we ll manage to get a final list

 

We ll keep you in touch about our research

Thanks again

Have a good week

Kind regards

Maylis Ardouin Legris

  

 

 

[corisande]

Maylis

 

Can I make 3 points

 

1. You need to give the exact address of where your Great- Grandmother was living when the liason took place. 

    By that I do not mean just the town,  I mean the street or the farm. We had a similar request on this forum a few years ago and were not successful, but you may actually have more information to go on. I cannot find it in our archives, but aother reader here might.

    The problem is that the exact location enables us to find out which troops were there, but there were other peripetetic troops around that moved as part of their job like motor cyscle riders.

 

2. I appreciate it is difficult to put out some of personnal information, but the more you can make available, the more likely we can help you.

 

3. I would caution on DNA. It can only really give you a positive result if the child had been a male and their Y DNA was therefore passed down. And even if it could be done, it rests on your great-grandfather's family having taken and published tests

 

 

 

[legris]

Good afternoon

thanks a lot for your helpful points

We will contact Frohen Sur Authie and le Meillard town halls ( Frohen le Grand town hall doesn't exist today) and we ll ask my father's older cousin whose mother used to live in those places 

That's all we can do for now

About a dna research, we know it is very slim, indeed, it s necessary  to recall the limits of dna

Kind regards

M Ardouin Legris

[legris]

Hi

 

sorry for this very late message, We've moved to Arnhem, Netherlands and our researches had been stopped

We had a thought for your WW2 soldiers, There had been remembrance in september.

 

My father's cousin has given the exact address of Alice Marchand ( Langue), a widow at that moment : 795 route de Doullens, Frohen le Grand. Suzanne's birth house doesn't exist anymore, there's a new house instead

In front of this new house, there is a house with the number 806, this house has always been there .

 

 

However, here is a possible list :

 

Monchy-british-cemetery:

 

HUGHES Rifleman 762	W	Thursday, November 1, 1917 MONCHY BRITISH CEMETERY, MONCHY-LE-PREUX II. A. 9.	View record Rifle Brigade United Kingdom
TWITTEY Rifleman S/2160	R R	Thursday, November 1, 1917 MONCHY BRITISH CEMETERY, MONCHY-LE-PREUX II. A. 8.	View record Rifle Brigade United Kingdom
HADEN Second Lieutenant	F H	Sunday, November 4, 1917 MONCHY BRITISH CEMETERY, MONCHY-LE-PREUX II. A. 4.	View record Rifle Brigade United Kingdom
BALL Rifleman S/25581	W T	Sunday, November 4, 1917 MONCHY BRITISH CEMETERY, MONCHY-LE-PREUX II. A. 2.	View record Rifle Brigade United Kingdom
BUTTON Lieutenant	N F	Sunday, November 4, 1917 Age 23 MONCHY BRITISH CEMETERY, MONCHY-LE-PREUX II. A. 3.	View record Somerset Light Infantry United Kingdom

DU FEU Private 39342	NORMAN PHILIP	Sunday, November 4, 1917 Age 21 MONCHY BRITISH CEMETERY, MONCHY-LE-PREUX II. A. 7.	View record Hampshire Regiment United Kingdom
GROGAN Rifleman B/203396	M	Sunday, November 4, 1917 Age 27 MONCHY BRITISH CEMETERY, MONCHY-LE-PREUX II. A. 5.	View record Rifle Brigade United Kingdom
MITCHELL Private 12970	JOHN	Sunday, November 4, 1917 Age 21 MONCHY BRITISH CEMETERY, MONCHY-LE-PREUX II. A. 6.	View record Hampshire Regiment United Kingdom
SHARMAN Private 30366	ERNEST	Sunday, November 11, 1917 Age 26 MONCHY BRITISH CEMETERY, MONCHY-LE-PREUX II. A. 10.	View record King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment) United Kingdom

 

 

memorial Arras:

 

McDONNELL Second Lieutenant	THOMAS JOHN	Thursday, November 1, 1917 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 2 and 3.	View record Northumberland Fusiliers United Kingdom
GREEN Corporal 703601	CHARLES	Sunday, November 4, 1917 Age 18 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 9 or 10.	View record London Regiment United Kingdom
GREEN Private 703313	WILLIAM CECIL	Sunday, November 4, 1917 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 9 or 10.	View record London Regiment United Kingdom
TRIGG Private 702043	WILLIAM FRANCIS	Sunday, November 4, 1917 Age 22 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 9 or 10.	View record London Regiment United Kingdom
TEVERSHAM Serjeant 9693	PERCY THOMAS GEORGE	Thursday, November 1, 1917 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 4.	View record West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) United Kingdom
NORTON Gunner L/37828	GEORGE WILLIAM	Tuesday, November 6, 1917 Age 18 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 1.	View record Royal Field Artillery United Kingdom
HARRIS Rifleman 5/463	ALFRED	Thursday, November 1, 1917 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 9.	View record Rifle Brigade United Kingdom
CLARK Driver 95997	THOMAS W.	Tuesday, November 6, 1917 Age 24 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 1.	View record Royal Field Artillery United Kingdom
BROOKS Private 33393	WILLIE	Sunday, November 4, 1917 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 2.	View record King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment) United Kingdom
BLAKE Private 29010	JOSEPH FRANCIS	Friday, November 2, 1917 Age 23 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 3.	View record Royal Warwickshire Regiment United Kingdom
WILLMORE Second Lieutenant	JOHN	Monday, November 5, 1917 Age 28 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 6.	View record Worcestershire Regiment United Kingdom
ALLUM Private G/55128	WILLIAM CHARLES	Friday, November 2, 1917 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 3.	View record Royal Fusiliers United Kingdom
BALL Private 19367	JOHN	Wednesday, November 7, 1917 Age 25 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 3.	View record The King's (Liverpool Regiment) United Kingdom
HAY Rifleman S/17794	WILLIAM THOMAS	Thursday, November 1, 1917 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 9.	View record Rifle Brigade United Kingdom
SHENTON Private 241393	RICHARD ERNEST	Wednesday, November 7, 1917 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 6.	View record East Lancashire Regiment United Kingdom
STEVENTON Private 701097	RICHARD WILLIAM	Sunday, November 4, 1917 Age 20 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 10.	View record London Regiment United Kingdom
TATUM Private 722902	BERTIE	Sunday, November 4, 1917 Age 24 ARRAS MEMORIAL Bay 9 or 10.	View record London Regiment United Kingdom

 

 

 

WINDMILL BRITISH CEMETERY, MONCHY-LE-PREUX:

 

LIONETT Private 868	PERCIVAL HUGH	Thursday, November 1, 1917 WINDMILL BRITISH CEMETERY, MONCHY-LE-PREUX I. F. 5.	View record Royal Warwickshire Regiment United Kingdom
WARD Lance Corporal 23203	JOHN	Tuesday, November 6, 1917 Age 29 WINDMILL BRITISH CEMETERY, MONCHY-LE-PREUX I. F. 8.	View record Royal Engineers United Kingdom

 

 

 

As soon as possible, we ll deepen these informations

Have a good day

Kind regards

Maylis Ardouin Legris