2nd Leinster Reg - enlistment in Scotland

[kheenan]

I have a private Henry Heenan with the 2nd Leinster Reg who was in france from september 1914. He was killed in 1917. His service records are missing so I don't know where he enlisted but he was born in Glasgow and had a wife living there in 1917. Any idea why someone in Glasgow would enlist into an Irish regiment??

[ss002d6252]

It could be for any number of reasons - they were the regiment that needed men at the time & were recruiting, he liked the uniform, he had some connection with the regiment or even just that it was the recruiting serjeants old regiment and he talked him in to it.

 

Craig

[Jervis]

He was a pre-war regular. So he volunteered for the Army life. Possibly he had an Irish connection and wanted to join the Leinsters or possibly the Leinsters just happened to be recruiting at that time he enlisted. 

[sotonmate]

Soldiers Dies in the Great War gives him as born Barony,Glasgow and enlisted there.

Original Medal Roll shows that his British War Medal was made into a brooch and it was found in 1925 and returned by the Police to the WO.

The number 9890 seems to have been issued to a soldier around mid-October 1912. (9889 was 14th of that month).

Edited 3 November , 2018 by sotonmate

[kheenan]

2 hours ago, sotonmate said:

Soldiers Dies in the Great War gives him as born Barony,Glasgow and enlisted there.

Original Medal Roll shows that his British War Medal was made into a brooch and it was found in 1925 and returned by the Police to the WO.

The number 9890 seems to have been issued to a soldier around mid-October 1912. (9889 was 14th of that month).

 

He was already a regular by 1914 in that case?

[Jervis]

Yes. As sotonmate states he joined approx. 1912. You could use Craig's gratuity calculator to get a better approximation of his enlistment date. 

I did not see him with the 2/Leinsters on the 1911 census and  he was certainly with the original 2/Leinsters of the BEF who left from Cork in September 1914. 

[Derek Black]

His Paybook Will survives and can be viewed (for a fee) on ScotlandsPeople.

He's one of only 17 Scottish men of the Leinster Reg listed.

 

Cheers,

Derek.

Edited 4 November , 2018 by Derek Black

[kheenan]

Thanks Derek, I've located his will, It gives his wife's address but no other new information. Interestingly the will is dated in 1917 just a month before he died. Given he had been on active duty since 1914 (as per his medal card) it seems strange that he would wait until 1917 to make a will. I'm wondering if his circumstances had changed - eg, had he just got married. 

9 hours ago, Derek Black said:

His Paybook Will survives and can be viewed (for a fee) on ScotlandsPeople.

He's one of only 17 Scottish men of the Leinster Reg listed.

 

Cheers,

Derek.

 

[kheenan]

10 hours ago, Jervis said:

Yes. As sotonmate states he joined approx. 1912. You could use Craig's gratuity calculator to get a better approximation of his enlistment date. 

I did not see him with the 2/Leinsters on the 1911 census and  he was certainly with the original 2/Leinsters of the BEF who left from Cork in September 1914. 

Many thanks for your response Jervis, The gratuity calculator gives him 37 months qualifying period which puts his enlistment at July 1914. I know he was in France from september.  

[johnboy]

Sometimes men were encouraged to make their will before a battle

[rolt968]

17 hours ago, kheenan said:

I have a private Henry Heenan with the 2nd Leinster Reg who was in france from september 1914. He was killed in 1917. His service records are missing so I don't know where he enlisted but he was born in Glasgow and had a wife living there in 1917. Any idea why someone in Glasgow would enlist into an Irish regiment??

In the 1901 Census he is shown living in Soho Street, Camlachie, Glasgow (the east end of Glasgow, an area called Mile End). In that part of Glasgow contained a sizeable part of the population of Irish descent, so he may have had Irish connections (Census 1901 - ancestry).

 

His parents seem to have been born in Glasgow, but it looks as if his paternal grandmother (at least) was born in Ireland (Census 1881 - ancestry).

RM

Edited 4 November , 2018 by rolt968

[Derek Black]

2 hours ago, johnboy said:

Sometimes men were encouraged to make their will before a battle

Indeed.

As well as when they received a new or replacement paybook and had to fill it out.

 

Derek.

[ss002d6252]

3 hours ago, kheenan said:

Many thanks for your response Jervis, The gratuity calculator gives him 37 months qualifying period which puts his enlistment at July 1914. I know he was in France from september.  

My online calculator should never suggest a date prior to the start of the war other than to pop up a warning message (If it's doing differently then there's a bug in the calculation somewhere.It should show the following

 

(Are you by any chance using the old spreadsheet version instead of the online version ?)

 

Craig

[kheenan]

On 04/11/2018 at 10:46, johnboy said:

Sometimes men were encouraged to make their will before a battle

That makes sense, thanks for the info

On 04/11/2018 at 11:29, rolt968 said:

In the 1901 Census he is shown living in Soho Street, Camlachie, Glasgow (the east end of Glasgow, an area called Mile End). In that part of Glasgow contained a sizeable part of the population of Irish descent, so he may have had Irish connections (Census 1901 - ancestry).

 

His parents seem to have been born in Glasgow, but it looks as if his paternal grandmother (at least) was born in Ireland (Census 1881 - ancestry).

RM

Thank you for going to so much trouble on my behalf. 

[kheenan]

On 04/11/2018 at 13:51, ss002d6252 said:

My online calculator should never suggest a date prior to the start of the war other than to pop up a warning message (If it's doing differently then there's a bug in the calculation somewhere.It should show the following

 

(Are you by any chance using the old spreadsheet version instead of the online version ?)

 

Craig

Craig, i was using the on line version, type 2, Private with £17.10 gratuity and a date of death as Aug 11, 1917. I ran it again and it still comes up with 37 months

[ss002d6252]

Just now, kheenan said:

Craig, i was using the on line version, type 2, Private with £17.10 gratuity and a date of death as Aug 11, 1917. I ran it again and it still comes up with 37 months

It's a Type 1 and not a Type 2 - you see some Type 1 entries that are made without the stamp and instead they just write the details in the same format as the stamp.You can the tell difference from a Type 2 as Type2 will be a single line that says 'includes War Gratuity of XXX'.

 

Craig

[kheenan]

5 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

It's a Type 1 and not a Type 2 - you see some Type 1 entries that are made without the stamp and instead they just write the details in the same format as the stamp.You can the tell difference from a Type 2 as Type2 will be a single line that says 'includes War Gratuity of XXX'.

 

Craig

I ran it again and initially it gave me a response that he had 45 months service. It wasn't until I clicked on the little button "use this date' that I got the error message you showed above. So at least you now know that it is working and the errors are on my part

[ss002d6252]

1 minute ago, kheenan said:

I ran it again and initially it gave me a response that he had 45 months service. It wasn't until I clicked on the little button "use this date' that I got the error message you showed above. So at least you now know that it is working and the errors are on my part

No problem - it should be giving a message regardless so I'll see why it's not triggering it when I get a chance. Probably just need to add an extra line of code in to close that bug off.

 

Craig