An Unappreciated Field of Endeavour: Logistics and the British Expeditionary Force on the Western Front 1914-1918

[Muerrisch]

I bought the book but wish that I had not.

 

It is possible to make an inherently dull subject even more dull, and in this the author is successful.

 

I tried pick and mix, to look for collateral on aspects with which I was familiar, but found nothing of much illumination.

 

Fortunately the good colonel,/ lt-colonel  /major does not need my approval.

[alf mcm]

  I have finished reading this book and found it extremely interesting. It is definitely not an easy read, with all the abbreviations, repeated footnotes and repeated repeated words. I had to laugh however at the reference to ‘Queen Alexander’s Imperial Military Nursing Service’. I think it is worth persevering with because there is a lot of interesting information within the book.

Regards,

Alf McM

[healdav]

The author definitely knows his stuff, but he seems almost hell bent on making the book unreadable. It is the first I have ever come across where most pages have a larger percentage devoted to long footnotes than to text. Many of the footnotes ought to be text, in my opinion.

 

However, it is as the title say, an unappreciated field of endeavour, and it's about time, and long past time, that logistics was given a proper part in the war (or any war).  For far too long logistics has been regarded as being a nice way to avoid the war while being in the army, instead of recognising that without a proper study of the subject, war becomes impossible (as the Austrians had found as far back as the Napoleonic wars - but did nothing about it, because real soldiers don't get involved with transporting stuff).

Edited 4 February , 2019 by healdav

[bootneck]

After reading both threads on this book I took the plunge and brought a copy. I found it not an easy read and lost the will to continue with it very early on; however, I passed it on to a friend who not only knows the subject but also knows the author who appreciated it.

I see that Janet Macdonald’s book Supplying the British Army in the First World War is being published in April by Pen & Sword. Her previous work has looked at victualling the Royal Navy during the Napoleonic Wars.   

[seaJane]

Janet's work can at least be relied upon to be readable - I had some input into Feeding Nelson's Navy and have read the copy she donated to the library. I may have sent her some details on RN victualling in the Great War for comparison, but I can't recall at this distance in time whether that was her or another reseacher. . 

 

She's also not a bad speaker if anyone is looking for one.

[Marilyne]

the more I read about this book, the more I want it... might be interesting for work too! !!

I find it funny that you all complain about pages on which the percentage of footnotes is higher than actual text... welcome to academics... I have read books on international law, the work of international tribunals and on legal doctrine in which the footnotes took a WHOLE page and I had a professor for whom your work was worthless if the footnotes did not take at the very least a fifth of the page... so I'm used to it.

I had asked the book for Christmas to my sister, but she did not get the hint and got me a fondue/pierrade set instead...

 

Have a nice day everyone!

 

M.

 

[Ron Clifton]

As a modern-day practitioner yourself, Marilyne, I am sure that you will find interesting and informative.

 

Some of the book's shortcomings can be put down to poor proof-reading, and therefore more the fault of Helion than the author. But I cannot help thinking that a much longer book, with many fewer footnotes, even at double the price, would still have attracted the serious student of the subject.

 

Ron

[fellop]

I spent all my military service in logistics [1964-89] and was in BAOR during the many changes to both systems and unit formations. My one time OC later wrote the book Powering War: Modern Land Force Logistics.

I have read the many posts in this thread and other places about this book and will be ordering it.

 

Regards

[Marilyne]

36 minutes ago, fellop said:

Powering War: Modern Land Force Logistics.

 

 More info about this book please???

 

We're about to completely change our Log system, going to Single Operational Level Log ... and I don't want mistakes of the past being dragged into it.

So I will first learn from the past. 

 

M.

[fellop]

1 hour ago, Marilyne said:

 More info about this book please???

 

We're about to completely change our Log system, going to Single Operational Level Log ... and I don't want mistakes of the past being dragged into it.

So I will first learn from the past. 

 

M.

PM Sent

 

[Steven Broomfield]

2 hours ago, Ron Clifton said:

poor proof-reading, and therefore more the fault of Helion 

 

Ron

 

Sadly all-too common in Helion's later volumes.

[Waggoner]

On 04/02/2019 at 11:13, bootneck said:

Janet Macdonald’s book Supplying the British Army in the First World War is being published in April by Pen & Sword.

 

I would like more information about this book, please.

 

All the best,

 

Gary

[seaJane]

1 hour ago, Waggoner said:

 

I would like more information about this book, please.

 

All the best,

 

Gary

Publisher's website.

https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/Supplying-the-British-Army-in-the-First-World-War-Hardback/p/15752

[Marilyne]

that is SOOOOOO going on Ze List !!!! 

 

M.

[Gibbo]

On 06/11/2018 at 06:44, Steven Broomfield said:

 

If I were critical of helion, I'd say proof-reading is one of their shortcomings. The other is the Index: often these are rather poor in Helion publications.

 

Helion books are proof read by the author, who is working from a pdf rather than a hard copy. Very hard to proof read your own work because of confirmation bias.

 

The index to a Helion book is compiled by software and then checked by the author. This is also done from a pdf but in this case it is easier than working from a hard copy as the pdf  be searched for the relevant words.

 

The software is unable to differentiate between different people with the same surname. My book mentioned 3 men called Wilson and 3 called Sykes. I also created a problem for myself by switching between United States, US and USA.

[Waggoner]

Proof reading your own work is nigh on impossible. Much as I didn’t like it at the time, an editor/proof reader was invaluable when I wrote my books!

 

All the best,

 

Gary

[David Filsell]

Ron,

Interestingly, your comments almost exactly mirror those made in a review of the book I have just received for Stand To! Equally many Helion books are being criticised other by reviewers for poor proof reading and editing. At the AGM of The Haig Fellowship last week a number of established military authors also made the same complaint. They are important publishers for those of us interested in the Great War and generous in supplying books for review, but, sadly,  they do seem to have a major quality control problem with editing and proof reading at the moment.

Regards

David

[Steven Broomfield]

5 hours ago, Gibbo said:

 

Helion books are proof read by the author, who is working from a pdf rather than a hard copy. Very hard to proof read your own work because of confirmation bias.

 

The index to a Helion book is compiled by software and then checked by the author. This is also done from a pdf but in this case it is easier than working from a hard copy as the pdf  be searched for the relevant words.

 

The software is unable to differentiate between different people with the same surname. My book mentioned 3 men called Wilson and 3 called Sykes. I also created a problem for myself by switching between United States, US and USA.

 

Thanks you. Most enlightening.

[Steven Broomfield]

13 minutes ago, David Filsell said:

Ron,

Interestingly, your comments almost exactly mirror those made in a review of the book I have just received for Stand To! Equally many Helion books are being criticised other by reviewers for poor proof reading and editing. At the AGM of The Haig Fellowship last week a number of established military authors also made the same complaint. They are important publishers for those of us interested in the Great War and generous in supplying books for review, but, sadly,  they do seem to have a major quality control problem with editing and proof reading at the moment.

Regards

David

 

I would also suggest (going slightly off-topic  I suppose) that their habit of effectively reprinting PhD theses without a lot of work to put them into book-shape is a little disappointing.

 

I don't want to knock Helion, who produce books on subjects no-one else would touch, but they appear to have become victims of their own success in terms of quality control and sheer weight of books being produced. 

[Muerrisch]

Please can some kind soul tell me how to find "Army Service Corps" in the book. The index is inscrutable, or at least I cannot scrute it.

I am particularly interested in the massive expansion immediately after Declaration.

My wife's grandfather, a cowman in civilian life, volunteered on 5th August and was in France well before the end of the month. Sounds like Logistics to me.

[Gareth Davies]

Page 378 has a number of ASC units listed.  And the ASC list is on page 381.

Edited 6 February , 2019 by Gareth Davies

[David Filsell]

Interesting point. I can live with thesis talk, but it's certainly better when books are written in simple proper  English. A recent Helion book of essays on The Indian Army contained endless repetitions of the formations sent overseas in each piece, rather than bring dealt with in a brief overview introduction. It also contained one essay by an American academic which was written in such convoluted acaspeak it was virtually impenetrable.

[Ron Clifton]

A slight digression: BBC4 (TV) is showing the programme on logistics in Saul David's series "Bullets, Boots and Bandages". It is tonight at 8pm. Apologies for the short notice,  but it should be available on BBC iPlayer for a few weeks.

 

Ron

[Waggoner]

 Muerrisch,

 

if you are looking for a better list of ASC units, may I suggest Mike Young’s Army Service Corps, 1903-1918 (or words to that effect). 

 

All the best,

 

Gary

[Muerrisch]

Gareth and Gary, many thanks. I was hoping to find information on the expansion, not the units ..... plans for, method of implementing etc. I am right, am I not, to hope for specifics about the work of the ASC in the war?