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Remembered Today:

WW1 medals but no service records


paulofur

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Hi, I am travelling to the WW1 battlefields in a couple of weeks time and wonder if anyone can solve a big mystery for me!

 

The details are in the attachment below - including the story of my father (who was 14/15 at the time) meeting his own father (who was 51) in France in 1917/1918. My grandfather didn't even know his son had joined the Army and had him sent home. My dad told me he was back in France a few weeks later.

 

It's quite a tale but as you can see I have been unable to turn up any service records for my father despite having the medals.

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Paul 

Stanley Furner.jpg

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I can't see anything obvious for him either as 14151 - there should be medal records somewhere...

 

Where was he born ?

 

Craig

Edited by ss002d6252
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Hi Craig, Many thanks for trying to help. He was born in Walworth in London in 1903. When his father (Edwin Furner) enlisted in the Royal Engineers in 1915 the family were living in Earlsfield, also in London. When Stanley enlisted with the Queens Own Royal West Kent regiment for 9 years in 1919 this was done in Kingston 

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FMPast:

Record Transcription:
Surrey Recruitment Registers 1908-1933
First name(s)    Stanley George
Last name    Furner
Service number    571
Age    17 Years 3 Months
Birth year    1902
Birth place    Camberwell
Birth county    Surrey
Birth country    England
Occupation    Messenger
Attestation year    1919
Attestation date    23 June 1919
Attestation place    Kingston On Thames
Unit or regiment    Royal West Kent Regiment
Regiment    Royal West Kent Regiment
Height    5ft 1in.
Weight in pounds    115
Eye colour    Blue
Complexion    Fresh
Hair colour    Brown
Chest expansion inches    2
Chest size inches    32.5
Distinctive marks    Undeveloped
Notes    
Voluntary and Direct enlistments. Recruitment register: Voluntary and Direct enlistments under WO telegram 2105 A.G.13 AL on cover and 31st Regt District Recruiting Area on pages inside. Various number ranges are in use, including a sequence for short service recruits and another sequence for enlistments for North Russia, authority 27/Gen.No/7299 (A.G.13). This volume has been indexed.
County    Surrey
Country    England
Reference    2496 / 42
Series    VOLUNTARY AND DIRECT ENLISTMENTS, 18TH NOVEMBER 1918 TO 7TH JUNE 1920
Page number    46
Record set    Surrey Recruitment Registers 1908-1933
Collections from    England, Great Britain
Category    Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory    Regimental & Service Records
 

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Thanks both. I will check it again later but pretty sure I have a paper copy of this which I obtained from the Army Personnel Centre - no clues unfortunately on there but I will double check 

 

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His father seems to have enlisted in to the RE in 1915 aged 37 however his later protection certificate states he was b1866.
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM/WO363-4/7306452/29/726

 

It seems from the record that the father possibly never went overseas until 15 March 1918
 

Quote


Thanks both. I will check it again later but pretty sure I have a paper copy of this which I obtained from the Army Personnel Centre - no clues unfortunately on there but I will double check 


 

That information comes from the recruitment registers which aren't held by the MOD (although similar information would obviously be in the service record).

 

Craig

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Hi,

 

Im away from home at the moment so haven't got any family WW1 medals to check but IIRC don’t 14/15 Star + BWM & Victory Medal just have Soldiers name, Number and Regiment but not Battalion number as quoted by OP.

 

1914 Star only has Battalion Number.

 

If my memory is correct does that support Craig’s failure to find him on MIC & Medal Rolls and suggest the medals are self awarded?

 

No offence intended.

 

http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/british_index.htm

 

Steve

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Paul,

 

Can you post a photo or two of the medals and the inscription?

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Craig - thank you. Are you able to see which unit(s) Edwin Furner was serving with from March 1918?

 

Steve/Keith - I will post pictures of the medals later. Thank you 

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4 minutes ago, paulofur said:

Craig - thank you. Are you able to see which unit(s) Edwin Furner was serving with from March 1918?

 

Steve/Keith - I will post pictures of the medals later. Thank you 

 

Craig

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Hi Paul,

 

Thanks. Just to reiterate absolutely no offence intended.

 

Steve

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Craig - thanks.

 

Steve - none taken. My dad also served in WW2 and I can see on some paperwork from that war that he enlisted in July 1917 (when he was 14). Even when in hospital near the end of his life he insisted on giving a date of birth 3 years earlier than the truth as this is what he had said to the army way back when. In reality I'm very confident he served but, like most boy soldiers, lied about date of birth and probably name. I'll post the pictures of the medals up later to see what the verdict is. I think there may be something a bit 'rum' about them but not about his actual service. Thanks for your help/interest.

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Paul,

Just in case do you know Stanley's mother's maiden name?

It might be worth checking the relevant war diary as there may be a very slim chance that he may be recorded there as being sent home under age.

Regards

David

 

Edited by DavidOwen
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2 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

Just in case do you know Stanley's mother's maiden name?

 

Adelaide Elizabeth Furner (nee Liggett)

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Hi, Stanley's mother's maiden name was Adelaide Elizabeth Huggett. She obviously became Adelaide Elizabeth Furner on marriage. David - when you say to check the relevant war diary where do I look? Thanks all for your help 

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4 hours ago, RaySearching said:

Adelaide Elizabeth Furner (nee Liggett)

 

Huggett it is then

apologies,  I should know better than to trust Ancestry's transcriptions

 

Ray

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As promised please find attached pictures of the medals. The inscription on the side of the medal to the right (the Allied Victory Medal?) is 

14151 PTE S FURNER 2ND RWK REGT

 

Exactly the same inscription is on the medal to the left (the British War medal?) but it is not in white lettering so is pretty tricky to take a picture of.

 

My father definitely enlisted in the Queens Own Royal West Kent regiment in 1919 and was with the 2nd battalion.

 

He also served in WW2. Another document I have from that time suggests he initially enlisted in July 1917

 

All thoughts on the mystery of the WW1 medals / lack of service records pre 1919 gratefully accepted!

IMG_0280.JPG

IMG_0279.JPG

IMG_0278.JPG

Thanks Ray - not easy to read to be fair! I am really blown away by all the help I'm being given here. Thank you 

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Hi Paul,

 

Sorry but the inscription doesn't look right to me.

 

Look on the link I posted there is a RWK example that doesn't have REGT after RWK.

 

As I said Battalion wasn't shown on anything other than 1914 Star.

 

Regards

 

Steve

Edited by tullybrone
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11 hours ago, paulofur said:

Hi, Stanley's mother's maiden name was Adelaide Elizabeth Huggett. She obviously became Adelaide Elizabeth Furner on marriage. David - when you say to check the relevant war diary where do I look? Thanks all for your help 

I asked because sometimes soldiers enlisting under an alias used their mother's maiden name, and hey presto there is  a MIC for a George S Huggett in the Royal West Kent Regt. 

It is available free on Ancestry as per image below:

image.png.67b41c33fe764f181bc8ea16e9580880.png

 

Of course there is no guarantee that it is your soldier so requires further research to determine that one way or the other.

 

The War Diaries for the 2nd Royal West Kent are available for download from the National Archives for a small fee or should also be available on Ancestry if you have a subscription. BUT I should have checked the Long Long Trail sooner as all the diaries for the 2nd Battalion RWK are in relation to its service as part of the 12th & 34th Indian Brigades in the Mesopotamia arena, so he could not have been in France with the 2nd Bn in 1916.

 

If you know which battalion his father served in then it may be worth checking that one. 

 

So, perhaps a new lead re Huggett but a hole in the 2nd Battalion story revealed.

 

The search goes on....

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14 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

I asked because sometimes soldiers enlisting under an alias used their mother's maiden name, and hey presto there is  a MIC for a George S Huggett in the Royal West Kent Regt. 

It is available free on Ancestry as per image below:

image.png.67b41c33fe764f181bc8ea16e9580880.png

 

Of course there is no guarantee that it is your soldier so requires further research to determine that one way or the other.

 

The War Diaries for the 2nd Royal West Kent are available for download from the National Archives for a small fee or should also be available on Ancestry if you have a subscription. BUT I should have checked the Long Long Trail sooner as all the diaries for the 2nd Battalion RWK are in relation to its service as part of the 12th & 34th Indian Brigades in the Mesopotamia arena, so he could not have been in France with the 2nd Bn in 1916.

 

If you know which battalion his father served in then it may be worth checking that one. 

 

So, perhaps a new lead re Huggett but a hole in the 2nd Battalion story revealed.

 

The search goes on....

 

Well Done. Great lateral thinking!

 

Steve

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Dear David,

Brilliant researching!

Kindest regards,

Kim.

 

Dear All,

Apropos "selfies": 635693195_NamingMajGaskell15Starrev.jpg.10c311e77941b869c57ef69a804c532b.jpg1325383286_MajGaskell15TrioandDurbar11obv.jpg.47cf6c04aaf45c1ac349379c7115021e.jpg1590683724_Gaskellnamings2.jpg.92735f703615d4a01998bbd8b47321eb.jpg422303201_MajorThomasKershawGaskellDec1911.jpg.9d21b72479a91e2d731bd90739c2e871.jpgI have a medal group to a Major whose official entitlement was the BWM only - but who added the 15 Star and Victory.

He served at the Regtl. Depot in Marseilles, but possibly visited the real War Zone unofficially (his RA brother had the DSO)...

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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Thank you David, that is a very, very interesting lead re George Huggett. I will get to grips with Ancestry later and see what I can find. You’re a star! 

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28 minutes ago, tullybrone said:

there is  a MIC for a George S Huggett in the Royal West Kent Regt. 

 

There appears to be a small discrepancy here; although worth eliminating

The medal rolls show this soldier to be Pte GS,8400 George Stephen Huggett

 

Ray

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