Bayonet Identification

[Andrew Core]

I’ve purchased what I believe to be a WW1 bayonet from a car boot sale. I’m of the opinion it was likely not used in First World War however if anyone can oblige with any info or insight I would be  very grateful.

theres a stamp for Remington and USA stamp with the British stamp crossed out

[N White]

Ok, so you have a P1913 bayonet that was made for the British P1914 rifle.  So if that was it, yes it wouldn't have seen a lot of service.

 

However, the US stamping was done with extra 1913 bayonets to be used by the US on their 1917 rifles.  That, and the proper US sacbbard (with wire hooks, a British scabbard would not have them) says to me that yes this probably did see service in WW1- with the US.  This is a US bayonet.

 

Since you used the term car boot sale, I am guessing you are UK based, this probably ended up over there in WW2 when the US sent a lot of 1917 rifles as war aid.  I'd like to see the frog better, as it is not US, and doesn't belong there, at least in a WW1 context, but might make sense as a WW2 addition.

 

 

[RGJDEE]

Andrew, welcome.

You have indeed purchased a WW1 Bayonet.. Designed to fit the. American Springfield Rifle (P14) Used by U s troops in WW 1 and widely issued to the Home Guard here. In WW2. The scabbard and frog are WW2 issue..

Remington was the major producer with Winchester also having a UK contract.. 

yours is dated 10/17 so manufactured October/1917.

regards Richard.

[Andrew Core]

Guys thanks so much for your input. Very helpful

[4thGordons]

23 minutes ago, RGJDEE said:

Andrew, welcome.

You have indeed purchased a WW1 Bayonet.. Designed to fit the. American Springfield Rifle (P14) Used by U s troops in WW 1 and widely issued to the Home Guard here. In WW2. The scabbard and frog are WW2 issue..

Remington was the major producer with Winchester also having a UK contract.. 

yours is dated 10/17 so manufactured October/1917.

regards Richard.

 

Corrections needed here

1) the Springfield is not (P14) - those are two different rifles and the P14 was never used by US troops.

The Springfield is the US Rifle .30 M1903. 

Here

 

 

This bayonet was used on the US Rifle.30 Model 1917 (M1917):

Here

which was a derivative of the British Pattern 1914 rifle (or P14 or No3 MkI*)

Here

 

Huge numbers of M1917s were produced in WWI to equip the AEF as it was a rifle designed for modern, mass production rather than the M1903 Springfield which was not.

M1917s were both purchased and lend-leased to the UK in WWII and as noted often used by the Home Guard.

 

2) The scabbard itself with the wire hanger is probably original WWI in my view (it may well be marked Jewell if you look up and down the back), standard US issue, including the green colour, This is the second type of scabbard used the first type had the wire hook attached by a leather tab.

 

The leather frog looks to be a WWII vintage British frog as issued with the pattern 39 leather equipment set (which saw Home Guard use) -  both of which would suggest the history of this bayonet is as N White says:

 

Produced as a Pattern 1913 Bayonet for Britain but left over at the end of the contract

British markings cancelled and taken on as a US M1917 Bayonet and equipped with the US scabbard

Sold/Lend-leased to the UK in WWII and fitted with a leather frog to allow use with the P1937/P1939 equipment set.

 

Chris

[RGJDEE]

7 minutes ago, 4thGordons said:

 

Corrections needed here

1) the Springfield is not (P14) - those are two different rifles and the P14 was never used by US troops.

The Springfield is the US Rifle .30 M1903. 

Here

 

 

This bayonet was used on the US Rifle.30 Model 1917 (M1917):

Here

which was a derivative of the British Pattern 1914 rifle (or P14 or No3 MkI*)

Here

 

Huge numbers of M1917s were produced in WWI to equip the AEF as it was a rifle designed for modern, mass production rather than the M1903 Springfield which was not.

M1917s were both purchased and lend-leased to the UK in WWII and as noted often used by the Home Guard.

 

2) The scabbard itself with the wire hanger is probably original WWI in my view (it may well be marked Jewell if you look up and down the back), standard US issue, including the green colour, This is the second type of scabbard used the first type had the wire hook attached by a leather tab.

 

The leather frog looks to be a WWII vintage British frog as issued with the pattern 39 leather equipment set (which saw Home Guard use) -  both of which would suggest the history of this bayonet is as N White says:

 

Produced as a Pattern 1913 Bayonet for Britain but left over at the end of the contract

British markings cancelled and taken on as a US M1917 Bayonet and equipped with the US scabbard

Sold/Lend-leased to the UK in WWII and fitted with a leather frog to allow use with the P1937/P1939 equipment set.

 

Chris

I stand corrected Chris to your far superior knowledge.

thanks for putting me straight .

R

[trajan]

Look carefully at the back of the fog - there should be a maker's mark there although it may have worn off...

Edited 23 October , 2018 by trajan