Admin DavidOwen Posted 21 October , 2018 Admin Share Posted 21 October , 2018 Dear all, This isn't about marksmanship but about trying to help out a friend. It has just become clear to us that Edward Bates (born 1897/8 and in 1911 living at 51 Ayscough Street, Grimsby aged 13) would have been of eligible age to volunteer or be conscripted before the end of the war. Whilst we know he survived the war we have absolutely no information on whether he served or went to sea (as his brother Sydney did, sadly killed when the Grimsby trawler Cheshire hit a mine in 1915), or was in a reserved occupation or declared unfit. Just to complicate matters he may have been known as Edward Urry as whilst his mother appears as "Bates" on the 1911 census it transpires she never married the head of house and her death was recorded in the 1950s under her earlier name of "Urry" If anyone is able to advise us it would be very much appreciated. Below are the 1911 and 1891 census records from FMP (free weekend) Thanks for reading David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 October , 2018 Share Posted 21 October , 2018 There was a Edward Urry serving in the Royal Sussex as G/2233 but that number looks far too early for a conscript. I think he can be ruled out. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 21 October , 2018 Author Admin Share Posted 21 October , 2018 2 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said: There was a Edward Urry serving in the Royal Sussex as G/2233 but that number looks far too early for a conscript. I think he can be ruled out. Craig Thanks Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 October , 2018 Share Posted 21 October , 2018 It doesn't look like there are from the census but, to confirm, I assume there are no middle names ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 21 October , 2018 Share Posted 21 October , 2018 This could be him, born in Grimsby as Thomas Edward U Bates. https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8912&h=46077128&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bmY18240&_phstart=successSource Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 21 October , 2018 Author Admin Share Posted 21 October , 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, alf mcm said: This could be him, born in Grimsby as Thomas Edward U Bates. https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8912&h=46077128&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bmY18240&_phstart=successSource Regards, Alf McM Thanks Alf, Don t have Ancestry at present, so think a trip to the library maybe needed. Does it list mother and/or father on that record? Appreciate the help. Regards David Edited 21 October , 2018 by DavidOwen Predictive **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 21 October , 2018 Share Posted 21 October , 2018 David, It's just the civil registration index. His birth was registered in the 2nd quarter of 1898. There is also a death index, which quotes his date of birth {12th April 1898}. He died in Grimsby in December 1977. Regards, Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1959 Posted 21 October , 2018 Share Posted 21 October , 2018 Can find the family in 1901 census. The man born 12/4/98 is in the 1939 list with his family. Presumed wife Ada A and daughters Lillian and Gladys ( 2 other closed records) FMP has a school record for this Thomas Edward in 1906 in Grimsby with right DoB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 21 October , 2018 Author Admin Share Posted 21 October , 2018 44 minutes ago, alf mcm said: David, It's just the civil registration index. His birth was registered in the 2nd quarter of 1898. There is also a death index, which quotes his date of birth {12th April 1898}. He died in Grimsby in December 1977. Regards, Alf 13 minutes ago, Mark1959 said: Can find the family in 1901 census. The man born 12/4/98 is in the 1939 list with his family. Presumed wife Ada A and daughters Lillian and Gladys ( 2 other closed records) FMP has a school record for this Thomas Edward in 1906 in Grimsby with right DoB Thanks folks, this all fits with my friend's memory. Now if we can only track his possible military service (or not) down then we or rather you folks will have cracked it. Much appreciated David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 21 October , 2018 Share Posted 21 October , 2018 The 1919 Grimsby Absent Voters has a website (some pages are in nice shocking pink!): The Bates soldiers listed are: BATES, Albert Benton, 33 Ainslie Street, 10th (N.F.) BATES, Arthur, 262 Cleethorpe Road, R.A.F., 53632 (1/A.M.) BATES, Bertram Harold, 97 Mill Road, G Coy. 12th (T.W.) Bn. Beds. Regt., 59994 (Pte.) BATES, John, 8 St. Helier's Road, H.M.S. Pekin (Minesweeping) BATES, Thomas Edward, 18 Railway Street, 2nd Lincs. Regt., 38833Pte. BATES, Thomas Henry Searby, 88 Castle Street, 25 D.A. Dk. Hd. R.N.R.T., H.M.S. Ganges BATES, Walter, 13 Haycroft Street, 1st Lincs. Regt., 38080 BATES, Wilfred Reginald, 98 Legsby Avenue, 241484 Pte., 2/5 Lincs. Regt. Inf. http://www.angelfire.com/de/delighted/voters.html I can't see any listed as Urry. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 21 October , 2018 Author Admin Share Posted 21 October , 2018 11 minutes ago, Stebie9173 said: The 1919 Grimsby Absent Voters has a website (some pages are in nice shocking pink!): The Bates soldiers listed are: BATES, Albert Benton, 33 Ainslie Street, 10th (N.F.) BATES, Arthur, 262 Cleethorpe Road, R.A.F., 53632 (1/A.M.) BATES, Bertram Harold, 97 Mill Road, G Coy. 12th (T.W.) Bn. Beds. Regt., 59994 (Pte.) BATES, John, 8 St. Helier's Road, H.M.S. Pekin (Minesweeping) BATES, Thomas Edward, 18 Railway Street, 2nd Lincs. Regt., 38833Pte. BATES, Thomas Henry Searby, 88 Castle Street, 25 D.A. Dk. Hd. R.N.R.T., H.M.S. Ganges BATES, Walter, 13 Haycroft Street, 1st Lincs. Regt., 38080 BATES, Wilfred Reginald, 98 Legsby Avenue, 241484 Pte., 2/5 Lincs. Regt. Inf. http://www.angelfire.com/de/delighted/voters.html I can't see any listed as Urry. Steve. Thanks Steve And together with Alf and Mark you have triggered the thouht that we had been looking for Edward, not Thomas Edward who, of course appears on your list above? Could Thomas Edward Bates 38833 Pte in the Lincolnshire Regiment be our man? Many thanks everyone! Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 21 October , 2018 Share Posted 21 October , 2018 Ok, there was a Thomas Edward Bates married to Ada A Wilkinson in 1918. Name: Thomas E Bates Registration Date: Jan-Feb-Mar 1918 Registration district: Grimsby Inferred County: Lincolnshire Spouse: Ada A Wilkinson Volume Number: 7a Page Number: 1266 The 1939 Register shows: Thomas E Bates; Birth Date: 17 Apr 1898; Address: 88 Wintringham Road; Residence Place: Grimsby, Lincolnshire; Occupation: Locomotive Coal Hoister Ada A Bates; Birth Date: 6 Jan 1895; Address: 88 Wintringham Road; Residence Place: Grimsby, Lincolnshire; Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties Also Lilian Bates (later Smith), chamber maid, born 1920 and Gladys Bates, biscuit packer in factory, born 1922 The 1919 Absent Voters list at 18 Railway Street also shows "WILKINSON, Robert Ernest, Minesweeper". If "our" Thomas Edward Bates is the one who married Ada Wilkinson then I think this is the right one, with 18 Railway Street presumably being Ada's parents address. In addition, the marriage certificate may well give information on Edward's military identity. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 21 October , 2018 Author Admin Share Posted 21 October , 2018 Steve, that all fits with the little we knew so thank you very much. I can now concentrate on TE Bates and see what more can be found about his service. Much appreciated. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 21 October , 2018 Share Posted 21 October , 2018 Just for confirmation Ada A Wilkinson age 16 (born about 1894-95), daughter of Betsy E Wilkinson, appears on the 1911 Census at 18 Railway Street, Grimsby, as does Robert E Wilkinson. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 21 October , 2018 Author Admin Share Posted 21 October , 2018 9 minutes ago, Stebie9173 said: Just for confirmation Ada A Wilkinson age 16 (born about 1894-95), daughter of Betsy E Wilkinson, appears on the 1911 Census at 18 Railway Street, Grimsby, as does Robert E Wilkinson. Steve. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dink999 Posted 21 October , 2018 Share Posted 21 October , 2018 A bit more info on his birth Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 21 October , 2018 Share Posted 21 October , 2018 Clever stuff by Alf and the follow-up by others ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 21 October , 2018 Author Admin Share Posted 21 October , 2018 4 minutes ago, charlie962 said: Clever stuff by Alf and the follow-up by others ! All good stuff thank you. So this is his MIC (image courtesy of Ancestry, free access), whilst they have it upside down TNA had it miss-indexed under 3883 (rather than 38833 - error has been reported). Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1959 Posted 21 October , 2018 Share Posted 21 October , 2018 Medal Roll adds nothing useful except 2 Lincs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 21 October , 2018 Author Admin Share Posted 21 October , 2018 2 minutes ago, Mark1959 said: Medal Roll adds nothing useful except 2 Lincs. Thank you Mark, it all helps. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolymoleyRE Posted 21 October , 2018 Share Posted 21 October , 2018 Hi David, Looking more likely you have the right man, Thomas Edward Urry baptised May 1898, born April 1898 mother Emily Urry. To further confirm 38833 tie to Grimsby, wound (Gas) record for 21st March 1918 for Private 38833 TE Bates C Company, 2nd Battalion, Lincolnshire Regiment, residence Grimsby. Sadly no age given. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 22 October , 2018 Author Admin Share Posted 22 October , 2018 Thanks Andy, much appreciated! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 22 October , 2018 Share Posted 22 October , 2018 Dear All, Brilliant researching - and not an Officer, at that! Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 22 October , 2018 Author Admin Share Posted 22 October , 2018 On 21/10/2018 at 15:08, DavidOwen said: So this is his MIC (image courtesy of Ancestry, free access), whilst they have it upside down TNA had it miss-indexed under 3883 (rather than 38833 - error has been reported). Received just now from the TNA - error to be corrected - quite a speedy response I think! Thank you for your e-mail. We have passed the details of this possible error to our transcription team, who have investigated this enquiry and have agreed that '3883' should be indexed as '38833'. The changes made will be viewable online within the next few weeks. If you have any further problems please don't hesitate to contact us. Yours sincerely, Simon Headlam Discovery Downloads Direct Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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