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Remembered Today:

Visiting Reims - 4e Bataille de Champagne


Captain RHW

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Am visiting Reims next week, any battlefield recommendations appreciated. I am most interested in any concerning the Second Battle of the Marne. 

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Fort de la Pompelle !!!!

And the little "musée de la reddition"... not a WWI landmark, but still worth your time. 1731063661_Morthomme-Montfaucon320.JPG.6be33be64f9f60bd7bd92d94a9b195a6.JPG

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Also interesting but depending on your interests is the ossuaire de Navarin and the RUSSIAN chapel and cemetery at Saint-Hilaire-le-Grand.

 

Got a friend who lives there and he once took me to all these places...

 

M;

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17 hours ago, Marilyne said:

Also interesting but depending on your interests is the ossuaire de Navarin and the RUSSIAN chapel and cemetery at Saint-Hilaire-le-Grand.

 

Got a friend who lives there and he once took me to all these places...

 

M;

The Ossuaire looks great, will def put it on the destination thanks.  

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If your out east of Reims as Marilyne suggests about four and a half miles north of la Ferme du Navarin is the American Memorial at Blanc Mont. This commemorates the attacks by American troops west of the Argonne forest 100 years ago; it gets forgotten as most of the emphasis is on the area to the east of the Argonne. The view back to the ossuary are remarkable. And if you take in St Hilaire a slight detour via Souain takes you to the northern edge of the little town of Suippes. There is a large and sad French cemetery there with one CWGC British grave, a Red Cross driver called Gidley. Just across the road from the entrance to the communal cemetery next to the military one is a memorial stone which says that this little junction was where the Kaiser was told that the Schlieffen plan had failed in September 1914. I think it is a very symbolic location.

 

I assume you are in the car so if you are heading for Reims then the Chemin de Dames is a relatively short detour to the north west. Cerny is worth a visit as it is at the heart of the 1914 and 1917 fighting and has a French and German cemetery along with the Loyal North Lancs memorial to the fighting here in 1914 at the end of the battle of the Marne. Not far away is the beautiful CWGC cemetery at Vendresse-Beaulne.

 

Have a great trip,

 

Pete.

 

P.S. Top tips by Terry, saved me a lot of typing.

 

P.P.S. I'm sure you know the French pronounce your destination like rams rather than reams. My mate Charlie nearly ended up on a train to Rennes due to this.

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Dear Pete

 

Thanks so much to you (and Terry), that's brilliant advice.  I must admit I'm planning on fitting in more than one Champagne House (have already got a tour of Pommery booked) so the itinerary is starting to fill up ... Suippes sounds really good.  One always wonders about the veracity of X being the spot where some extraordinarily poignant event happened, but that one about the Kaiser sounds at least plausible, much more so than eg the bunkers Corporal Hitler is supposed to have occupied. 

 

Thanks for the reminder - the appropriate French pronunciation is always important. Over 15 years ago I was staying in Bruges and asked the hotel receptionist how to get to Ypres (eep).  He affected not to have a clue what I was talking about, until I pointed to the map, whereupon he said 'ah, Eeper'.  I should have just said Wipers.  

 

Best,

 

James

PS Was intrigued by the Everton of Auckland reference (Auckland is my home town, though I've been in the UK for 20 years now), not being much of a footballing sort I hadn't heard of the connection before now. Google tells me there was a short lived club by that name over a century ago. In my youth our local league still called the teams after English ones, so for a couple of seasons aged 6-8 I played for Chelsea of Auckland ...  

 

 

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Hi James

 

Just a thought, but with it being late October the days will be that bit shorter so it might be worth doing a must see and nice to see if time allows list. The champagne houses will take up your time. I've been trying to think about sites which support 2nd Marne and I'm struggling to think of places that don't involve a lot of travelling. Maybe Chateau-Thierry and Dormans might be possible. The problem is that the penetration was quite deep and the locations quite spread out.

 

I've never been able to prove or disprove the veracity of the Kaiser at Suippes story, but if true I think it is the place that the Germans started to lose the war. The German army was so good it took four years but that is where the whole thing started to go wrong. Let us know how you get on and maybe do some pictures? I haven't been out that way for a long time and I'm very envious of your trip.

 

Pete.

 

P.S. Remind me when you get back and I'll tell you about Everton Auckland. They ran four teams before the war, won the Auckland championship on I think two occasions and lost nine members or former members killed in WW1. They folded after the war, but if we assume a ratio of dead to wounded of 1 to 3 that means that the majority of the pre-war members were physically affected. I've visited most of them and know their stories; remembering them is very important to me, they also tell the story of the outstanding contribution of the New Zealand division. It's really interesting that you played for Chelsea by the way.

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Cheers Pete yes it became rapidly clear that there aren’t enough hours in the days for all the champagne / Great War sights, so the lists are being compiled as you suggest. (One for croissant vendors too.) Happy to share photos as well.

 

I agree once mobile war ceased the Germans’ chance was greatly reduced though they nearly pulled it off in 1918. Same in WWII - I’d argue that designs like the Tiger were an indication of strategic failure since heavy, powerful tanks were defensive in nature. The Germans couldn’t win with that strategy, they could only win a short, attacking mobile war as in 1940. In both wars the German surface fleet was a staggering waste of resources as well that might have made a difference if diverted to U Boats, aircraft and (in ww2) tank production.

 

best, James

 

ps will def remind you about Everton Auckland when I get back. Aged 6 I thought Chelsea referred to a NZ brand of sugar. Now as the father of 2 English boys I have learned rather more ... 

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Ah, proper French croissants and coffee like ink that doesn't change colour when you put the lait in; wonderful. I am so envious. Interesting points you make too, I'll have a ponder.

 

Have a great time,

 

Pete.

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Many thanks all for the excellent recommendations.  In the event, aside from Aix-Noulette cemetery on the way down, we did: 

 

  • Reims Cathedral (a good Great War photography exhibition on there at the moment);
  • Dormans Memorial;
  • Tattinger and Pommery Champagne tours, which include tours of the Roman caves and tunnels in which the local population found shelter during the war (good champagne a wholly incidental bonus ...)
  • Suippes, with the marker about the 1914 moment mentioned by Pete above;
  • Ferme du Navarin
  • the American Memorial at Blanc Mont. 

We also stopped at a handful of cemeteries along the way. Non-GW highlights included the Surrender Room in Reims, more champagne houses (Gardin a real highlight), and croissant vendors ...

 

James

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On 25/10/2018 at 14:27, Captain RHW said:

Many thanks all for the excellent recommendations.  In the event, aside from Aix-Noulette cemetery on the way down, we did: 

 

  • Reims Cathedral (a good Great War photography exhibition on there at the moment);
  • Dormans Memorial;
  • Tattinger and Pommery Champagne tours, which include tours of the Roman caves and tunnels in which the local population found shelter during the war (good champagne a wholly incidental bonus ...)
  • Suippes, with the marker about the 1914 moment mentioned by Pete above;
  • Ferme du Navarin
  • the American Memorial at Blanc Mont. 

We also stopped at a handful of cemeteries along the way. Non-GW highlights included the Surrender Room in Reims, more champagne houses (Gardin a real highlight), and croissant vendors ...

 

James

 

Sounds great James, I'm really envious having not been out that way for many years. Some of the pere et fils non-name champagne makers out in the sticks are hidden gems as I understand it. I'd be very keen to see the pictures if you have them, even the champagne ones.

 

Pete.

 

 

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