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tbirduk

ID of Uniform

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tbirduk

Could some one confirm this is the Correct uniform for a 4th Battalion Grenadier Guard (Private)  c1915?

Grenadier.jpg

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FROGSMILE

Yes, Grenadier Guards.  The shoulder strap titles are the pre-WW1 pattern of white grenades, later replaced by a garter strap to avoid the slight chance of confusion with Fusiliers.  Collar badges remained unchanged.

Edited by FROGSMILE

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tbirduk

Thanks, very useful.

 

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FROGSMILE
10 minutes ago, tbirduk said:

Thanks, very useful.

 

 

Glad to help, it seems that he is wearing drab khaki service dress trousers, which is unusual and suggests that he had hastily put on just tunic and forage cap to take the opportunity of a portrait photograph.

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tbirduk

I did wonder if the sleeves were on the long side ....

 

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FROGSMILE
7 minutes ago, tbirduk said:

I did wonder if the sleeves were on the long side ....

 

 

No the sleeves are perfect, each Guardsman had (and still has) his tunic carefully fitted by the Sergeant Master Tailor (each battalion had one of these at the time).

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tbirduk
On 22/10/2018 at 13:21, FROGSMILE said:

 

No the sleeves are perfect, each Guardsman had (and still has) his tunic carefully fitted by the Sergeant Master Tailor (each battalion had one of these at the time).


Thanks for that, interesting little docu section with the Grenadier's Sergeant Master Tailor during the BBC Broadcast on the Queens Birthday Parade last Saturday.

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FROGSMILE
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, tbirduk said:


Thanks for that, interesting little docu section with the Grenadier's Sergeant Master Tailor during the BBC Broadcast on the Queens Birthday Parade last Saturday.

 

The Household Division’s regiments (Foot and Horse, including also the King’s Troop RHA) are the last units to still have the appointment of ‘Master Tailor’ on their established (i.e. publicly funded) strength.  The last vestige of a trade that once existed in every deployable unit.

Edited by FROGSMILE

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Dave1418

Hi

i wouldn’t read too much into the SD trousers worn with a full dress jacket as there are numerous pictures of this for various regiments. More so for pre war following the introduction of SD.

regards

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FROGSMILE
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Dave1418 said:

Hi

i wouldn’t read too much into the SD trousers worn with a full dress jacket as there are numerous pictures of this for various regiments. More so for pre war following the introduction of SD.

regards

 

I don’t believe that they (SD trousers) would have been worn by formed bodies of troops with full-dress tunics, coloured forage caps and swagger stick, Dave, especially in the Foot Guards, but also in the Line.  There would have been no reason to do so.  Even for a ‘tailoring parade’, which were common as preparation before a period of ceremonial and used to check fit, and wear and tear, it would be usual for the appropriate (matching) trousers to be worn and checked in the same way.  I’m not positive that SD trousers are being worn in subject photo, it might perhaps be an optical illusion, or fading of that part of the print, but if they are SD then the scenario I’ve suggested seems most likely.  It’s true however, that there are pictures of Territorials and Service Battalion recruits in the early days of the war wearing mixed dress at a time when there was a desperate shortage of many items of uniform.  I don’t think this is the case with the Foot Guards, who were of course, all regulars.

Edited by FROGSMILE

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tbirduk
On 11/06/2019 at 14:50, FROGSMILE said:

 

The Household Division’s regiments (Foot and Horse, including also the King’s Troop RHA) are the last units to still have the appointment of ‘Master Tailor’ on their established (i.e. publicly funded) strength.  The last vestige of a trade that once existed in every deployable unit.

He did appear a little overworked, complaining that when the guys returned from overseas deployments they had too many muscles to fit into their previous tunics :-) 

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Dave1418
10 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

I don’t believe that they (SD trousers) would have been worn by formed bodies of troops with full-dress tunics, coloured forage caps and swagger stick, Dave, especially in the Foot Guards, but also in the Line.  There would have been no reason to do so.  Even for a ‘tailoring parade’, which were common as preparation before a period of ceremonial and used to check fit, and wear and tear, it would be usual for the appropriate (matching) trousers to be worn and checked in the same way.  I’m not positive that SD trousers are being worn in subject photo, it might perhaps be an optical illusion, or fading of that part of the print, but if they are SD then the scenario I’ve suggested seems most likely.  It’s true however, that there are pictures of Territorials and Service Battalion recruits in the early days of the war wearing mixed dress at a time when there was a desperate shortage of many items of uniform.  I don’t think this is the case with the Foot Guards, who were of course, all regulars.

Hi

the most recent images in which I’ve seen this done were from the RMP museum archive a few weeks ago when I popped down to see Toby. I had always thought it was something of an anomaly but perhaps it’s a bit more common than we think.  I also have at least one image I’ll try to dig out which is of the RWKs.

regards

 

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FROGSMILE
Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Dave1418 said:

Hi

the most recent images in which I’ve seen this done were from the RMP museum archive a few weeks ago when I popped down to see Toby. I had always thought it was something of an anomaly but perhaps it’s a bit more common than we think.  I also have at least one image I’ll try to dig out which is of the RWKs.

regards

 

 

Yes, I agree that there were some occasions when it happened.  My point is that across the Army as a whole it was not a common practice without specific reason.  I will be interested to see the examples that you mention, and whether they are regulars, auxiliaries, war-raised, before or after WW1, and what the circumstances seem to be.

Edited by FROGSMILE

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Dave1418

Hi

the ones Toby has are MFP and mine is 4th RWK

regards

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