Heath Cemetery, Harbonnieres: Case #2 - RFC Captain and Serjeant

[laughton]

This is a case off the Heath Cemetery here:

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/265515-heath-cemetery-harbonnieres

 

@Cheshire22 wrote:

Quote

 

Richard and Trevor 

 

you don’t mention the unknown RFC Sgt & Captain who are buired in Plot 6, Row E, Graves 8 and 9

 

both were found at 62d. W. 12. a. 7. 5. 

 

 

I had not looked at the GRRF where it says they are both RFC - that was not on the COG-BR. Pays to have another set of good eyes! Not sure how it can be on the GRRF if not on the COG-BR?

 

@laughton WROTE:

Quote

 

The RFC Sgt and Captain that "Good Eyes" Jamie @Cheshire22 noted above are on COG-BR 2301375 and COG-BR 2301376. There is no unit affiliation or any other details for the Captain.

 

 

 

 

EDIT 21-10-2018: Note that they were found at 62d.W.12.c.7.5 which Trevor has now pointed out, appears on the trench maps to be a cemetery.

 

Just match the Captain and the Serjeant from the list of the 16 Serjeants (CWGC Link). That information will be in Trevor's book - everyone should have a copy!

https://theskytheirbattlefield2.com/

 

To insert the GRRF or COG-BR just use the file number in the code where it has 999999 etc.: http://archive.cloud.cwgc.org/archive/doc/doc9999999.JPG

 

 

EDIT 21-10-2018: Here is the COG-BR that goes with that:

 

 

Edit 17 November 2019: and here is the next page, the COG-BR for the Captain - not shown on this document as RFC

 

Edited 17 November , 2019 by laughton
edited in October 2018 and again in November 2019 as noted in the text

[Cheshire22]

When I first quickly looked at it 

 

I came up with the name’s of Captain Summers and F/Sgt Clarkson.  22 Squadron killed on 1st August 1916 

 

but that was a quick look, as they were the only 2, that matched in rank 

 

was the rank of flight Serjeant around in 1916 ?

 

jamie

[Cheshire22]

Or could it be 

 

Captain Charles Napier and Sergeant Patrick Murphy.

 

48th Sqn, RAF who were shot down on the 15th May 1918 between Lamotte and Caix by Ltn H Kirschstein of Ja6. 

 

I know the GRRF states RFC but nothing is on the COB to say why they are RFC and not RAF 

[laughton]

Trevor can probably tell us if they changed uniforms and insignia when the RFC and RNAC merged to form the RFA, which I think was in 1918.

 

Trevor can search his database.

[laughton]

Trevor has conducted a detailed analysis, which he has sent to me as a WORD document. I will extract the key components and put them in this topic, then we can decide whether to move forward with a report.

 

Before I do that, I think it is important that we note that Trevor's analysis identified one of the cemeteries that is not on the David Avery List (DAL) but is referenced in the CWGC description for the Heath Cemetery (see this topic: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/265515-heath-cemetery-harbonnieres/)

 

This is important to the case, as this is where we find the RFC Captain and Serjeant.

 

 

Quote

8. HARBONNIERES COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTN., in which 44 soldiers from the United Kingdom and 19 from Australia were buried by their comrades in August 1918. (not on DAL).
Edit 21-10-2018: I think Trevor has found this in his analysis of the RFC/RAF Captain and Serjeant as being the cemetery at 62d.W.12.c.7.5 on the COG-BR sheets around this one, which shows very clearly on the trench maps:
COG-BR 2301375 

 

There are a number of graves on the COG-BR that are at this precise location and a few that are on the fringe. They probably account for all of these men and we may need to tabulate all of them to deal with the issue of the August 1918 burial date stated by the CWGC. It would appear that was not an entirely correct statement. The numbers are the COG-BR codes:

• 2301294 - 6 men on the eastern edge of the cemetery at 62d.W.12.d.1.6, all August 1918 if date provided
• 2301295 - 7 men 62d.W.12.d.1.6, all Australian so we know that is August 1918
• 2301296 - 6 men 62d.W.12.d.1.6, all Australian so we know that is August 1918
• 2301316 - 4 Australians at the prime location 62d.W.12.c.7.5 all dated August 1918
• 2301372 - 2 Manchester lads at 62d.W.12.c.7.5
• 2301373 - 15 men mixed British and Australian all August 1918
• 2301374 - 12 men of which 1 is February 1918 and 11 are August 1918 (the February date was a typo and it too is August, so all August 1918)
• 2301375 - 11 men, including the RFC Serjeant (not dated). 1 man (Boots=Boote 6.E.7) April 1918 and rest August 1918
  • finally found Pte Thomas Richard Boote 2/4th East Lancs formerly 34574 3rd KORL
• 2301376 - 14 men, including the Captain later noted as RFC
  • including MORT (1 of 3 12th Bn Lancashire Fusilier lost in France in October 1915 - different areas)
  • 6 from March 1918
• 2301377 - 4 men, 2 of which are 11 Bn Durham Light Infantry who appeared not to exist and 1 UBS (see below, found them)
  • Evoy and Phillips, reported to be HQ 11 Bn Durham Light Infantry (2301377) in 5.I.8 and 5.I.9
  • On the GRRF Evoy becomes RSM McEvoy #15084 and Sgt. H. D. Philips (one "L") #1352 changes to the 8th Bn East Surrey Regiment
• 2301393 - 15 men 100 yds north at 62d.W.12.c.7.8, so same cemetery, all August 1918, mixed British and Australian

 

This is a total of 96 men, as compared to the CWGC report of 44 British and 19 Australian (63 total).

 

If we just count the prime area at 62d.W.12.c.7.5 then the total is 62 men, so I may be missing 1 man on the list.

Edited 22 October , 2018 by laughton
added links to COG-BR numbers

[laughton]

Here are the step-by-step pieces of information from the analysis of the airmen. This is condensed from the detailed analysis prepared by Trevor, who may wish to correct my errors,  add more details or address any questions. Any additional information I have added as a "(Note: ......)".
 

1. An UNKNOWN Serjeant and Captain, both reported by the CWGC to be RFC (Royal Flying Corps). (Note: The RFC may be misleading, all RFC, RNAS and RAF were checked).
    
2. Buried beside each other in Heath Cemetery, Harbonnieres concentrated from what appears to have been the Harbonnieres Communal Cemetery at 62d.W.12.c.7.5.
    
3. Harbonnieres is 20-25 km east of Amiens. Squadrons can be tied to dates and places, so logically the Serjeant was 16 km either side of Amiens in 1918 so the key search area is on maps [Corbie] 62d or [Peronne] 62c.
    
4. The adjacent COG-BR sheets, to where the Captain and Serjeant are buried, show at least 58 men concentrated from 1918. (Note: see the above post where I went back and checked them all for the complete cemetery - there are a few odd ones!)
    
5. The airmen could be from any time period but 1,431 of the 1,500 (>95%) men buried in Heath Cemetery, Harbonnieres are from 1918 (CWGC Link - which says 1,492?). (Note: of the remaining 30 are from 1917 (February to April), 33 from 1916 (July to September), and the last 5 from 1915 (late September early October). The odd one is 54 year old Pioneer Cline of the Royal Engineers, dated 12 November 1919.)
    
6. Trevor checked the Serjeants lost at any time to start. (Note: There are 32 known airmen buried in Heath Cemetery, all from May to September 1918.)
    
7. There are 36 Serjeants listed on the Arras Flying Services Memorial as having no known grave (CWGC Link). Of these 15 were lost in 1916-1917, only 8 of which were anywhere near the Somme - an all 8 lost at least 40 km or more north of the Somme River. No Serjeants, missing with no known grave, were lost anywhere near Harbonnieres before 1918. Therefore the missing Serjeant is one of the 21 listed as lost in 1918. Only Serjeant Swain was listed as RFC, prior to the formation of the RAF on 1 April 1918, but he went down into "The Channel" (lost at sea) on a training flight. (Note: the wreckage was found later near Boulogne.)

   surname	initials	death	unit	sqd
   DOBSON	E H	12-08-16	Royal Flying Corps	32nd Sqdn.
   BELLERBY	H	23-09-16	Royal Flying Corps	27th Sqdn.
   BROMLEY	C P J	02-11-16	Royal Flying Corps	7th Sqdn.
   BALDWIN	C G	03-11-16	Royal Flying Corps	18th Sqdn.
   SHAW	F J	04-02-17	Royal Flying Corps	15th Sqdn.
   BURGESS	H P	11-03-17	Royal Flying Corps	18th Sqdn.
   STEAD	G	29-04-17	Royal Flying Corps	18th Sqdn.
   WHATLEY	H A	02-07-17	Royal Flying Corps	53rd Sqdn
   BACKHOUSE	W D A	08-07-17	Royal Flying Corps	20th Sqdn.
   RANDELL	C L	23-08-17	Royal Flying Corps	22nd Sqdn.
   ROEBUCK	W H	11-09-17	Royal Flying Corps	48th Sqdn.
   STANLEY	A O	30-09-17	Royal Flying Corps	13th Sqdn.
   BENGER	W J	17-10-17	Royal Flying Corps	20th Sqdn.
   STEPHENSON	T F	20-11-17	Royal Flying Corps	11th Sqdn.
   TAYLOR	R C	20-11-17	Royal Flying Corps	13th Sqdn.
   SWAIN	F J	27-02-18	Royal Flying Corps	25th Sqdn.
   CARDNO	A S	06-05-18	Royal Air Force	29th Sqdn.
   MURPHY	P	15-05-18	Royal Air Force	48th Sqdn.
   JAMES	L	27-06-18	Royal Air Force	48th Sqdn.
   NORTON	C	27-06-18	Royal Air Force	48th Sqdn.
   HUNNISETT	E E	30-06-18	Royal Air Force	217th Sqdn.
   PRATT	S J	05-07-18	Royal Air Force	48th Sqdn.
   TENCH	G H	28-07-18	Royal Air Force	18th Sqdn.
   PACEY	J W	29-07-18	Royal Air Force	206th Sqdn.
   PHEBY	H T	04-08-18	Royal Air Force	215th Sqdn.
   HAMMOND	J H	14-08-18	Royal Air Force	18th Sqdn.
   WAREING	A T	29-08-18	Royal Air Force	57th Sqdn.
   LIGHTBODY	R R	15-09-18	Royal Air Force	203rd Sqdn.
   HOOKWAY	S	16-09-18	Royal Air Force	103rd Sqdn.
   MURPHY	L	16-09-18	Royal Air Force	205th Sqdn.
   SEAR	R J	21-09-18	Royal Air Force	108th Sqdn.
   PROCTOR	T	27-09-18	Royal Air Force	88th Sqdn.
   MAYGER	W N	28-09-18	Royal Air Force	203rd Sqdn.
   CRIDLAN	A L	07-10-18	Royal Air Force	11th Sqdn.
   FULLER	G E	07-10-18	Royal Air Force	11th Sqdn.
   FISHER	G	16-06-19	Royal Air Force	29th Sqdn.

   
    
8. Of the Serjeants lost in 1918, 14 were lost somewhere between Cambrai and (north or northwest) up to the Coast, so they can not be the Unknown Serjeant. That leaves 5 airmen lost and with no known grave in the Amiens sector (to the south). (Note: I have to check with Trevor on the numbers 35/36 missing and 19/20 for 1918 on the list). Here is the verbatim text from Trevor:
    

   • On 16 September 1918 The 205 Sqn crew of 2 Lt FF Anslow and Sgt L Murphy were shot down on a raid to Busigny in DH4 D9250.  2Lt Anslow was POW, and Sgt Murphy was killed and has no known grave.  Busigny is over 60 km east of Harbonnieres.  There’s a possible German claim that accounts for this loss – north of St Quentin, north of Bellenglise.  This feels like it can be discounted here.

     
     All the other four Sgts lost MIA and NKG in 1918 all now come from a single Squadron – 48 Squadron, flying Bristol F2B Fighters, and each one needs examining as a possible candidate.
      

   • Two 48 Sqn Sgts were lost in the early evening of 27 June 1918.  Two crews were shot down in flames in the vicinity of Villers Bretonneux – American pilot 1Lt JM Goad in F2B C877 was apparently found in 1922, as his remains were sent back to the US.  His Observer Sgt C Norton remains with NKG.  Note, his pilot was an American 1Lt. The other crew, Canadian pilot Lt EA Foord and Sgt L James were both killed in F2B C935.  The pilot’s grave was found in 1919 at Sh.62d P.34.a.30.80., just south of Warfusee-Abancourt.  The Observer Sgt James has No Known Grave.  His pilot’s grave was found just 5-6km west of where the NKG Sgt we’re searching for was found at Harbonnieres.  This also makes him a possible candidate – but note – his pilot was a Lieut.
      

   • On 5 July 1918 another 48 Sqn Sgt was lost – this was Sgt SJ Pratt, and he and his Canadian pilot 2Lt BS Hillis were once more shot down near Villers Bretonneaux, on a Reconnaissance.  This is frequently put down to a claim by OffSt J Mai of Jasta 5, who claimed a “BF” at what is usually called “Guillemont” – but this is 30km away to the north.  Original German transcriptions show this was actually “Guillaucourt” – which is just 3-4km away from where the NKG Sgt’s grave was found.  This also makes this Sgt another definite candidate – the third.  But note, once more, his pilot was a 2Lt, and the pilot’s grave found in 1920 at Sh.62d V.14.d.3.2. – just south-west of Marcelcave – another 5 or 6 km west from Guillaucourt – the crew might have been attempting to press home west before succumbing to their fate.
      

   • All of which brings me on to the last of these 48 Squadron Sgts, from the Summer of 1918, who have no known grave. Back in May 1918, on 15th May, 48 Squadron had another bad day, in the skies over this part of the Front: One pair of airmen – possibly a crew - was shot up and both (a pilot and an Observer) limped home wounded.  But then another four of their airmen – 2 crews – went MIA and none of them have ever been found.  Amongst the four was one Sgt.  We’ll come back to him.  The first aircraft to look at that came down that afternoon was Bristol Fighter C855. The crew of 2Lt CL Glover and 2Lt JC Fitton were seen shot down near Lamotte-Warfussee.  These two 2Lts have No Known Grave.  With them on patrol that day was another crew, in B1337, and that was seen shot down in flames, and both men have No Known Grave.  The Observer was Sgt P Murphy, and his pilot was a two-seater ace… Capt CGD Napier MC DCM.  Note… a Captain….    
     
     The German claims that can be potentially linked to the loss of these two crews come from an assortment of “BF” claims in the locality that afternoon from German airmen from Jasta 6 and Jasta 11.  I say, “potentially linked” because although I allot them in my book between aircraft in The Sky their Battlefield II, there is absolutely no way of knowning which might have shot down which – we just have three claims, that potentially help us with their recordings of Localities in the original German Records.  My linkage also doesn’t pretend to be a certainty of a claim to a specific crew – that’s why each one of them is prefixed by a “?”.  But also note – they are three claims all made across 5 minutes of time, and in a tight area, where those 48 Squadron were last seen, and believed to be lost. We have two claims from Jasta 11 west and south-east of Guillaucourt between 2-10pm and 2-15pm, and then another from Jasta 6 south-east of Caix, at 2-15pm.
      

   • These three placenames all cluster to within just a few short km west of Harbonnieres, where the Unknown Sgt airman was found (see Map below).  And then we look at the Graves Registration Report Form and we see there’s also an Unknown Captain airman, who was found with him.  I believe this pair can be no other than Capt Charles Napier from London and Sgt Patrick Murphy 61926, both lost in air fighting on 15 May 1918, from 48 Squadron Royal Air Force.  Rest in Peace.
      

   • Note, there is one more record for these two crews in AIR1 – confirming that a German message was received on 12 June 1918 that Capt Napier and Sgt Murphy was dead, as was 2Lt Fitton in the other machine. No mention is made of  pilot 2Lt Glover.  This implies that both Napier and Murphy had been buried.  I have a copy of this file.
      

Note: be aware there is a Sgt. L. Murphy and a Sgt. P. Murphy above.

 

Edited 16 November , 2019 by laughton
added note about 2 Sgt. Murphys

[laughton]

@Cheshire22

 

Are you doing this report?

[Cheshire22]

Richard 

 

sorry, i dont have enough experience in writing this type of report, I will leave the report to you and Trevor to write up and submit 

 

My only involvement was to make an observation.

 

you and Trevor did the hard work on it and your previous reports have got results. 

 

Jamie 

[laughton]

Jamie:

 

Got your PM, I understand. We will look after ther report but you are part of the TEAM. See last part (attachment) of all reports. I need that information for you as a "Project Researcher".

 

Richard

Edited 23 October , 2018 by laughton
typo

[Cheshire22]

On 23/10/2018 at 21:13, laughton said:

Jamie:

 

Got your PM, I understand. We will look after ther report but you are part of the TEAM. See last part (attachment) of all reports. I need that information for you as a "Project Researcher".

 

Richard

Hi 

 

has a report been submitted on the above subject 

 

Jamie

[laughton]

Nope, it has not.

 

At any time you can check the status on my blog page here: https://www.greatwarforum.org/blogs/entry/1750-categories-of-the-unknown-cases/

 

 

If you look down that list you will find it under:

 

Quote

To be Submitted:

• Unknowns Identified (all checked to make sure NO CANDIDATES are listed on a SPECIAL MEMORIAL, 27-10-2018)
  • British

    • https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/264973-epehy-wood-farm-cemetery-epehy-case-1-leicesters-captain-with-a-military-cross/ - holding for officer report from GUEST

    • https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/265656-heath-cemetery-harbonnieres-case-2-rfc-captain-and-serjeant/ @Cheshire22

 

Lots of work to do and so little time. I also have to be in the "report writing mood". The "hunt" is a lot more fun and immediately rewarding. I also wanted to give the CWGC some time to see if they are really "picking up the pace", which it appears they are.

[ANDY MIDDLEHURST]

I am sure that the missing RFC captain and sergeant  are Captain George Napier , and SGT Patrick Murphy . I have Napiers Medals , and a lot of paperwork . I have no picture of him , if anyone has ?

Edited 12 November , 2019 by ANDY MIDDLEHURST

[Cheshire22]

Richard,

 

has the report submitted 

[laughton]

On 23/10/2018 at 08:13, laughton said:

This was a comment from @fetubi

 

Note, there is one more record for these two crews in AIR1 – confirming that a German message was received on 12 June 1918 that Capt Napier and Sgt Murphy was dead, as was 2Lt Fitton in the other machine. No mention is made of  pilot 2Lt Glover.  This implies that both Napier and Murphy had been buried.  I have a copy of this file.

 

This file has come to the top of the pile for reporting. I will ask Trevor if he can send me this file for use in the report.

 

If others have more information or comments. please post those now. I will need to review this case from the start as it has been a year since it started and a lot of wind has passed under the wings!

[LDT006]

Their ICRC card state "mort pres Guillaucourt", this is just west of their original burial location.

 

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Zoom/E/15/01/C_G1_E_15_01_0063/C_G1_E_15_01_0063_3039_0.JPG/

 

Luc.

Edited 16 November , 2019 by LDT006

[LDT006]

And for the other crew that Trevor mentions:

Bristol Fighter C855 with 2Lt CL Glover and 2Lt JC Fitton 

 

Fitton: brought down SE Caix dead

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Zoom/E/15/01/C_G1_E_15_01_0030/C_G1_E_15_01_0030_2759_0.JPG/

 

Can't find a card for Glover, there is an index problem at ICRC.

[laughton]

I am having a problem with a decision as to whether this case would make it through the process. We have had some experience with the Service Authorities on the airforce cases.

 

To date the analysis has been made on the ASSUMPTION that because the two are buried beside each other, they came from the same event. The process laid out by the CWGC is clear, the case must be made on FACT and generally on NEW EVIDENCE not available (or we also say "NOT USED") by the original investigators.

 

Here I think is the big question:

1. How do we know that the Captain and the Serjeant, although buried beside each other in the same cemetery, were:
   • killed on the same day?
   • were in the same squadron?
   • were in the same plane?

Those reviewing the report (if submitted) will claim that:

1. There is no date of death for either the Captain or the Serjeant on either of the two (2) COG-BRs or on the one (1) GRRF.
2. The two sets of documents say the men were RFC and not RAF.
3. There is no indication as to what squadron either of the men were serving with at the time of their death.
4. There is nothing to tie the two men to the same aircraft.

As to the question of the date, the only statement that we can rely on is what the CWGC says about the burials and the Harbonnieres Communal Cemetery Extension, from which the bodies were exhumed - that being "in which 44 soldiers from the United Kingdom and 19 from Australia were buried by their comrades in August 1918". If that is true, then we can sate:

1. We need to only evaluate cases from August 1918.
2. The documents as written are incorrect, as the RFC no longer existed in August 1918, only the RAF.
3. If the August 1918 date is taken as 100% factual, then our prime candidates Captain Napier and Serjeant Murphy are excluded, as they were lost in May 1918.
4. The only Serjeants lost in August 1918 with no known grave were Pheby, Hammond and Wareing. If I understand Trevor's analysis correctly, neither of them were in the area of where the remains were found, so they could not have been buried by their comrades at Harbonnieres in August 1918. The obvious conclusion from that is that the CWGC statement is incorrect. As the CWGC has explained to me in the past, that type of information is from the cemetery's original register that would date back to the burial period. There are many cases where that type of information has been found to be questionable or incorrect.

Trevor's analysis also stated that "there are no Sgts lost and MIA NKG anywhere near Harbonnieres before 1918". Going forward then, we have to deal with anyone in 1918, not just August 1918.

 

As to the question of the burial details, the CWGC says that the men from the original cemetery were "buried by their comrades".

1. In Trevor's analysis he has told us "a German message was received on 12 June 1918 that Capt Napier and Sgt Murphy was dead, as was 2Lt Fitton in the other machine". Does that not suggest that it was the German's who buried Captain Napier and Serjeant Murphy - not their comrades?
2. Luc has now provided us with the files from the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), where the reply (translated) was "dead near Guillaucourt". Is that confirmation that it was the German's that knew of their death, as I believe is the most common source of response to the ICRC, or did that report come from elsewhere?

This suggests that the complete phrase in the CWGC document "buried by their comrades in August 1918" has to be taken as incorrect. It may have been at some other time in 1918 (we do know the year is correct) and they could have been buried by their comrades or the enemy. 

 

An extraction of the data from the CWGC database provides us with the names of 71 Captains and Serjeants on the Arras Flying Services Memorial for 1918, as compared to just eight (8) for August 1918. From this we can see:

1. There are only two (2) cases where a Captain and a Serjeant were in the same Squadron and lost on the same day.
   • Captain Napier and Serjeant Murphy were together ( Bristol F2B #B1337)
   • Captain Gould (DH4 A7903) and Serjeant Hammond (DH4 #A7856) were in the same squadron on the same day but in different planes
2. Trevor's analysis revealed that the Serjeant had to be one lost after April 1918 that went down on the Amiens front, thus 14 can be excluded as they were lost "somewhere between Cambrai and up to the Coast". That leaves five (5) Serjeants to consider. (Apparently I scrambled this interpretation so see posts that follow from Luc and then the corrections)
   • Serjeant L Murphy was excluded based on location, down at Busigny, 60 km east of Harbonnieres. That leaves four (4) Serjeants. all 48th Sqdn, as marked in the table below.
   • Serjeant James remains a candidate as Trevor reported "his pilot’s grave was found just 5-6 km west of where the NKG Sgt we’re searching for was found at Harbonnieres". Because we have no proof that the UNKNOWN Captain and Serjeant were in the same plane, we can't discount Serjeant James just because his pilot was a Lieutenant.
   • Serjeant Norton and his Lieutenant pilot went down near Villers-Bretonneux. Trevor reports "the pilot’s grave was found in 1919 at Sh.62d P.34.a.30.80., just south of Warfusee-Abancourt". On the map, that is about 6,000 yards east of where the Captain and Serjeant were originally buried at Harbonnieres. 
   • The same analysis applies to Serjeant Pratt, for as Trevor has reported "original German transcriptions show this was actually “Guillaucourt” – which is just 3-4 km away from where the NKG Sgt’s grave was found". Is pilot was a Second Lieutenant.

Unless we can prove that the Captain and Serjeant were in the same plane and killed on the same date, I think we are stuck!

 

surname	initials	death	rank	regiment	squadron	#
PITMAN	A F E	1/3/1918	Captain	Royal Flying Corps	57th Sqdn.
SELOUS	F H B	1/4/1918	Captain	Royal Flying Corps	60th Sqdn.
SWAIN	F J	2/27/1918	Serjeant	Royal Flying Corps	25th Sqdn.	'75078'
TAYLER	St. C C	3/17/1918	Captain	Royal Flying Corps	80th Sqdn.
MACLEAN	A P	3/18/1918	Captain	Canadian Infantry	20th Bn. 1st
HOWARD	R W	3/22/1918	Captain	Australian Flying Corps	2nd Sqdn.
MacILWAINE	J M	3/22/1918	Captain	Royal Flying Corps	12th Sqdn.
JAMES	A R	3/24/1918	Captain	Royal Flying Corps	62nd Sqdn.
KILKELLY	J G J	3/24/1918	Captain	Royal Flying Corps	79th Sqdn.
MARTIN	R H	3/24/1918	Captain	Royal Flying Corps	53rd Sqdn.
BARWELL	H W E	3/25/1918	Captain	Royal Flying Corps	18th Sqdn.
FENN	R P	3/25/1918	Captain	Royal Flying Corps	18th Sqdn.
CHILD	H R	3/27/1918	Captain	Royal Flying Corps	11th Sqdn.
TANNER	P V	3/27/1918	Captain	Royal Flying Corps	79th Sqdn.
ROBINSON	P D	3/31/1918	Captain	Royal Flying Corps	57th Sqdn.
SMITH	S P	4/6/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	46th Sqdn.
MOORE	G B	4/7/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	1st Sqdn.
CRAWFORD	K	4/11/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	60th Sqdn.
ALLAN	J R	4/12/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	215th Sqdn.
MACLEAN	A M	4/12/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	10th Sqdn
MAGOR	G A	4/22/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	201st Sqdn.
JUNOR	K W	4/23/1918	Captain	CMGC & RAF	56th Sqdn.
CARDNO	A S	5/6/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	29th Sqdn.	'206'
McDONALD	R	5/8/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	208th Sqdn.
ASPINALL	J V	5/15/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	11th Sqdn.
CHAMBERS	W G	5/15/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	49th Sqdn.
NAPIER	C G D	5/15/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	48th Sqdn.
MURPHY	P	5/15/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	48th Sqdn.	'61926'
BELL	R W	5/17/1918	Captain	Canadian Infantry	98th Sqdn.
WHITEHEAD	L E	5/20/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	65th Sqdn.
BELL	D J	5/27/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	No.3 Sqdn.
CRICHTON	G A	5/27/1918	Corporal	Royal Air Force	52nd Sqdn.	'49182'
CAIRNES	W J	6/1/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	74th Sqdn.
HENDERSON	K S	6/2/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	No. 1 Sqdn.
JAMES	L	6/27/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	48th Sqdn.	'213935'
NORTON	C	6/27/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	48th Sqdn.	'317146'
HUNNISETT	E E	6/30/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	217th Sqdn.	'224688'
PRATT	S J	7/5/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	48th Sqdn.	'100029'
JAMES	R A	7/16/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	54th Sqdn.
MORTON	E B G	7/16/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	98th Sqdn.
DUBBER	R E	7/18/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	107th Sqdn.
TENCH	G H	7/28/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	18th Sqdn.	'407064'
PACEY	J W	7/29/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	206th Sqdn.	'220614'
PHEBY	H T	8/4/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	215th Sqdn.	'220141'
MILLS	K C	8/8/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	1st Sqdn.
DORE	W H	8/9/1918	Captain	Canadian Infantry	107th Sqdn.
BOGER	W O	8/10/1918	Captain	Canadian LSH	56th Sqdn.
IRVING	G B	8/11/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	19th Sqdn.
GOULD	H R	8/14/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	18th Sqdn.
HAMMOND	J H	8/14/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	18th Sqdn.	'121816'
WAREING	A T	8/29/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	57th Sqdn.	'100507'
DOWLING	B L	9/2/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	22nd Sqdn.
GRANT	R C	9/2/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	209th Sqdn.
HOWARTH	N	9/6/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	23rd Sqdn.
LIGHTBODY	R R	9/15/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	203rd Sqdn.	'158968'
GLEN	J	9/16/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	70th Sqdn.
HOOKWAY	S	9/16/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	103rd Sqdn.	'61856'
MURPHY	L	9/16/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	205th Sqdn.	'237023'
SEAR	R J	9/21/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	108th Sqdn.	'94433'
ASBURY	E D	9/24/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	49th Sqdn.
STRANGE	G J	9/24/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	40th Sqdn.
THOMPSON	S F H	9/27/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	22nd Sqdn.
PROCTOR	T	9/27/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	88th Sqdn.	'212137'
MAYGER	W N	9/28/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	203rd Sqdn.	'1649'
DRAKE	E B	9/29/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	209th Sqdn.
CLEGHORN	W F	10/2/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	218th Sqdn.
CRIDLAN	A L	10/7/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	11th Sqdn.	'100074'
FULLER	G E	10/7/1918	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	11th Sqdn.	'175876'
WALKER	W	10/8/1918	Captain	Royal Air Force	6th Sqdn.
CRANE	J W	10/30/1918	Captain	Canadian Infantry	19th Sqdn.
FISHER	G	6/16/1919	Serjeant	Royal Air Force	29th Sqdn.	'20755'

Edited 18 November , 2019 by laughton
typo fixed - see below corrections by Luc

[LDT006]

Richard,

 

the CWGC description for the cemetery is wrong: it was also used by the Germans, PA29082 has several names that math those on the burial return doc2301376 .

The number of remains recovered could also be wrong, I have send in a correction for Tyne Cot, CWGC had 2 for Oostnieuwkerke and it was 24.

 

Don't worry about the RFC/RAF, RFC uniforms and badges were still worn late 1918 and even in 1919.

For C935 Bristol Fighter with Lt EA Foord and Sgt L James:

James is reported by the Germans as buried in approx. the same location (62d P.34.a.30.80) where Foord was found: 800m west of Warfusee, buried where he was brought down. I think he can be excluded

(Note: the locations are mixed up for Foord and Norton in your last post.)

 

Maybe more later.

Luc.

 

[laughton]

Great work, as always, Luc!

 

I looked to see if I could find some of the others, hoping that on one of the pages there would be mention of the Captain or Serjeant. I have found that before just going through the sheets. So far no luck.

 

The information on Foord and James is from Trevor's report, which it appears I scrambled, so the above text is incorrect as typed. I checked his book (page 185) and it has Foord MIA and James KIA. The correct text would be (if I have it right this time!):

 

Serjeant Norton and his Lieutenant pilot Goad went down near Villers-Bretonneux. Trevor reports the pilot "found in 1922, as his remains were sent back to the US".  Serjeant James remained a candidate as Trevor reported "his pilot’s grave was found just 5-6 km west of where the NKG Sgt we’re searching for was found at Harbonnieres". Luc discovered that Serjeant James was found in the same location, so he is now excluded.

 

I don't know where Lt. Goad was found in 1922. If we do know, the COG-BR sheets should be checked for a Serjeant near that location.

 

Foord had a ICRC card (under "Ford") but no PA, so it looks like they did not locate him at the time. Then Trevor has him found in 1919. He is excluded because he is a Lieutenant. Luc now also has the Serjeant found at the same location, so the pair is excluded.

 

Edited 18 November , 2019 by laughton
correcting errors

[LDT006]

7 hours ago, laughton said:

Luc now also has the Serjeant found at the same location, so the pair is excluded.

 

 

The grave has not been found, only the location where the Germans say that the was buried. More research is needed to find his grave.

 

I have checked ICRC again but can't find anything for the others.

 

The body of First Lieutenant John Marion Goad (USAS) was recovered from 62d.P.8.b.5.5  (looks as there was a cemetery at that location) and buried at Crucifix corner grave 10A4:

 

 

He was removed in September 1921 and returned to the US (Goad is visible on the first line:

 

 

I was only able to find the above documents with information from a very detailed website on US WW1 airmen:

http://parr-hooper.cmsmcq.com/2OD/the-biographies/john-marion-goad/

Using Google doesn't show this page because there is no space for Google advertisements...........?

 

The burial location of the 3 pilots "selected" by Trevor's research is known, only thing left to do is to find the graves of their observers.

CWGC might be able to help on this.

 

 

[ANDY MIDDLEHURST]

I have  the records that show that Napier and murphy went down together on May 15th 1918

[laughton]

That is correct but we don't know that the two men in the cemetery were in the same plane and fell on the same day. That is the missing link. To date we can only assume that to be the case, which it probably is, but the CWHC does not allow assumptions.

[ANDY MIDDLEHURST]

Hi , We know the trench map co ordinates of the original crash position . It’s my belief he was shot down by Hans Wolf . The bodies are now buried around half mile from the crash position ,and original sight . For your interest I have his medals ,the only thing I don’t have is a photo . I have collected a lot of paperwork on Napier ,and recorded on his papers mentions Murphy going down with him ,

[laughton]

7 minutes ago, ANDY MIDDLEHURST said:

Hi , We know the trench map co ordinates of the original crash position .

 

and those coordinates are ________________?

[ANDY MIDDLEHURST]

34 minutes ago, laughton said:

 

and those coordinates are ________________?

As you know his original sight was 62d w 12 a 7.5 ,he is now in 62d q 30 c 1 3 . Wolfs kill was recorded on the 15th may ,very close to the original burial site . The casualty card puts Murphy with Napier