Gnr Harry Sugden, 246th Brigade RFA

[Nige W]

Hi All.

 

I'm doing some research on my Grandfather Harry. I have some details and the photo below.

 

I know (from a document reference found) that he was actually in Naas, County Kildare sometime in 1919 - I presume as part of the Garrison in place during the time of the Irish Uprising - and believe that the photograph was taken around this period (see note below). Prior to this I know he was in France/Flanders with 246th Brigade RFA, attached to 49th West Riding Division.

 

As his medals/medal card record him as a Gunner, I'm presuming he gained promotion (to Sergeant) after the Armistice and whilst in Ireland the following year? - though I've no idea what would account for this.

 

The second photo is of a silver coin/medallion we have found which he gave to my Grandmother - As the front appears to be like a regular shilling with the Kings head on it, I'm thinking that this is either a) a "bastardised" coin or b) a medallion available to soldiers to have stamped or engraved - has anyone knowledge of this?

 

Any info on that or more on 246th Brigade would be appreciated.

 

Harry is in the middle, standing.

 

Thanks.

[GraemeClarke]

Morning,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

I HATE looking for artillery War Diaries, I find them most difficult to find, however this appears to be the one you need. £3.50.

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354633

 

Regards,

 

Graeme

[David Porter]

Welcome to the Forum Nige,

 

246th Brigade RFA was originally 1/2nd West Riding Brigade RFA and consisted of the following batteries:

1/4th West Riding Battery - Bradford became A/246
1/5th West Riding Battery - Halifax became B/246

1/6th West Riding Battery - Heckmondwike became C/246

 

From May 1916 there were changes of composition which resulted in batteries leaving and other batteries joining. It is quite complex. In order to get some kind of idea of your grandfather's service we would need his full name and number(s) to explore existing documentation. Maybe you could also post the document reference to County Kildare as this could provide more clues.
 

[Nige W]

Hi, and thanks for the replies.

 

I might check out that war diary Graeme, thanks.

 

Thanks for that info too David - Full details are Harry Sugden, Gnr 220251. The document ref I've seen is WO363, Digital folder No:007283516, Image N;:00179

 

Thanks again,

 

Nige

[clk]

Hi Nige,

 

Harry has some service papers - here on Findmypast, or here on Ancestry. Whilst it is far, far easier to download from the National Archives, Ancestry also has the Brigade war diary - link. The Commander Royal Artillery 49 Division starts here, and the Division HQ (general staff) diary here. The National Archives search page is here'

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

[David Porter]

I see from the service record he did not join 246th Brigade RFA until October 1918. Was with HQ and D battery until November 19, 1919. He was certainly still in Germany on October 15, 1919.

 

1 hour ago, Nige W said:

The document ref I've seen is WO363, Digital folder No:007283516, Image N;:00179

 

This means nothing to me and I cannot see any reference to Kildare in the service record. Can you post the image?

[Nige W]

Thanks to both clk and David - that's really useful.

 

I'm guilty of a bit of presumption I'm afraid. The document ref I have is dated 1919 and states residence as Naas - as the ONLY Naas I can find is in Co. Kildare I made assumptions. However it does say Naas, Yorkshire. I thought this an error because I have absolutely no idea where this is, and I live in Yorkshire. I haven't viewed the actual document, just got the record on FamilySearch.

 

I will check the records on Ancestry, as my local library has a version I can access.

[Simon R]

The 1/10th (Otley) Bty. of 4th West Riding (Howitzer) Bde. RFA (TF) became D/246 1st May 1916.

 

Edited 11 October , 2018 by Simon R
Error in original post

[Nige W]

Thanks for all the info and advice - most helpful.

 

I managed to get down to the library this afternoon and was able to access his service records on Find My Past, so all is now much clearer. He was never in Ireland - his residence is recorded as Naas, Yorkshire in the document ref mentioned above (no such place exists) which led me down the wrong path and I've no idea what this document is as it's not in his service record.

 

I've found he trained as a Signaller in RFA, then was promoted Cpl, Acting or Temporary Sergeant then full Sergeant in a short space of time. He continued service in Germany until late 1919.

 

I was also able to find my other Grandfather's service record - looks like he recieved gunshot wounds on three seperate occasions (or two wounds together in 1916 and one in 1917). He is Pvt Herbert Wilcock 16-1260 (1st Bradford Pals). He joined in 1914 when he was 15 or 16 - he stated 19 years and 137 days on Attestation.

Edited 11 October , 2018 by Nige W
error

[David Porter]

Well done Nige for following the Forum response and seeking out the service record. Not only that you disreguarded a rouge reference. Glad I was able to set you on the right path.

[Nige W]

Thanks David.