Help ID this please

[MN Doughboy 1918]

I’ve had this since I was a kid but just remembered I had it. I’m guessing someone here can tell me what it is?

[4thGordons]

I'm not an expert but it looks like it might be a 37mm shell from a Canon d'Infanterie de 37 modèle 1916 (37mm mle.1916) - 37mm Infantry Gun

 

The US used quite a lot of these in WWI and they were also fitted to US Tanks I think (post war?)

I believe PE &M Co is Poole Engineering & Machine Co.,BALTIMORE MD.

 

Chris

 

[MikB]

Yes, that looks like a 37mm piercing shot - chilled iron. 

 

I once had one with what I took to be a shrapnel shell with a hollow casing and a nose fuze.

 

I wonder what the barrel pressure must've been like to engrave such a heroically wide driving band into the rifling? It's 4 or 5 times the width you'd expect.

[Michael Haselgrove]

Hi 4th Gordons,

By coincidence, I have a 37mm Model 1916 round in my collection, also made by P E & M Co.  The cartridge headstamp  confirms it is for the 37mm Gun - Model of 1916.  The shell on my example appears identical to that on the round that MN Doughboy has, even down to the marking on the drive band, save mine has an (F) and not (M).  However, the cartridge on my example is much shorter, the cartridge and shell measuring approximately 6.5" and not about 8.5" as does the round in question.

I can't presently answer MN Doughboy's question save to say that the round doesn't appear to be for the Model 1916 Trench Gun but is probably 37mm and may have been designed, with an increased cartridge capacity and therefore velocity, for tank use.

Regards,

Michael.

     

[4thGordons]

3 hours ago, Michael Haselgrove said:

I can't presently answer MN Doughboy's question save to say that the round doesn't appear to be for the Model 1916 Trench Gun but is probably 37mm and may have been designed, with an increased cartridge capacity and therefore velocity, for tank use.

Regards,

Michael.

     

 

The US had a 37mm anti-tank gun in the inter-war / early WWII period I believe - perhaps it dates from then rather than WWI? (which might explain the longer case?)

The absence of any headstamp markings would seem atypical unless it was produced as a demonstration/training round etc.

Chris

[Gunner Bailey]

6 hours ago, Michael Haselgrove said:

I can't presently answer MN Doughboy's question save to say that the round doesn't appear to be for the Model 1916 Trench Gun but is probably 37mm and may have been designed, with an increased cartridge capacity and therefore velocity, for tank use. 

Regards,

Michael.

     

 

Didn't the Trench gun version have a very short case and was mainly used by the Austrians?

[Michael Haselgrove]

3 hours ago, Gunner Bailey said:

 

Didn't the Trench gun version have a very short case and was mainly used by the Austrians? 

 

Hi Gunner Bailey,

I'm afraid I am no expert on this subject and anything I write is subject to correction. 

However, I believe you are thinking of the Austrian 37mm M.15 Infantry gun for which Skoda was largely responsible.  This gun did indeed have a short cartridge, especially when compared with other 37mm guns.  The original 1" one pounder was designed by Sir Hiram Maxim in the 1880s and guns based on that cartridge were in use during the Great War by a number of countries including England, France, Germany and Belgium.  The cartridge is not to be confused with the Austrian design.

Below, to illustrate the differences, is a photo showing from left inert examples of two French manufactured rounds, one American and the Austrian 37mm round.  

Regards,

Michael.      

[Gunner Bailey]

Michael. 

 

I assumed the Austrian 37 was 'trench gun' due to its short range. Hardly AA or artillery. Great photo. Thanks. 

[Guest]

The french used a similar shell to this in trench guns. I believe this is merely an american version.