Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Boursies Cemetery 57C.J.5.B


WiseMonkey

Recommended Posts

Can anyone tell me more about the cemetery at Boursies, France (57C.J.5.B)?

 

I've found reference to a 4th Bn AIF burial there around 15/04/17. Grave later recorded no trace. Clearly on the  map a cemetery did exist at that location. Can anyone shed light on to what happened to the graves there? Were they concentrated into either Hermies Hill or Hermies British Cemetries, possibly? 

I have noticed 5 known 4th Bn AIF graves at Hermies Hill British Cemetery for 15/04/17 (1 special memorial and 4 concentrations).

 

20181005_002811.jpg.f118deb0cd4d6e98171b0500b4b2ae25.jpg2138448872_Screenshot_20181004-232103_SamsungInternet.jpg.e708de76840a2334efceed4a6c63751f.jpg

Edited by WiseMonkey
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure it answers the question but the cemetery just north of the village of Boursies is still there and appears simply to be the municipal cemetery.  It may be that you man was indeed initially reported buried there but was not able to be found subsequently. As you have seen, none of the concentrations are from that map reference.

 

Does the area north of Boursies make sense with the war diary of the man you are looking at?  I note that the other concentrations were all well to the south of Boursies.

 

Max

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the date of the 15/4/17 I believe the 4th Bn AIF held a line to the South of Boursies through J.6.D.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, WiseMonkey said:

On the date of the 15/4/17 I believe the 4th Bn AIF held a line to the South of Boursies through J.6.D.

 

Have you had a look at the 1st Brigade AIF War Diary for April 1917 as it gives an account by Lt Col I G Mackay and map reference for the Battalion on that day. 

 

It is possible that the Graves were lost over the coming year

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Unclear where Boursies was concentrated into, but may well be Hermies Hill British Cemetery.

 

Worth looking at the 4th Bn members connected to Hermies Hill and also other 4th Bn members killed that day. The 5 at Hermies Hill appear to have been concentrated from Boursies area (see Service Papers), but 3 of the 5 graves were lost and Special Memorials established. Per papers Ahearn - Boursies Cemetery, Bennett - J18, Harris - Dickebush (an error J18 in Concentration Report), Hawkes - 3/4 mile SE of Boursies, Robertson - Boursies Cemetery. So Ahearn and Robertson from Boursies Cemetery.

 

There is also a reference to Gordon - he is commemorated on Villers-Bretonneux Memorial so presumably his remains were recovered and reinterred at Hermies Hill, but then lost. His papers say he was recovered 1 3/4 mile NNE of Hermies. Might be worth checking the other casualties' papers to see if any others also originated at Boursies Cemetery.

 

No IWGC/CWGC recovery location reference is not uncommon where battlefield cemeteries were ultimately concentrated elsewhere. Also not uncommon that graves could not be identified after reinterment in a concentration cemetery.  

 

Rgds

 

Tim D

 

 

 

 

doc2295261.jpg

Edited by Blackblue
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

The CWGC DAL on shows the two Hermies cemeteries in the 57c.J. sector but they are both 57c.J.29.

 

If I am looking for a cemetery, such as this, I would do this search in GOOGLE, which I have linked to the results:

 

Boursies site:www.cwgc.org

 

The page for Moeuvres Communal Cemetery Extension says:

 

Quote

Moeuvres remained in German hands during the Battle of Cambrai, 1917, in spite of three days of desperate attack by the 36th (Ulster) Division. It was partly taken by the 57th (West Lancashire) Division on 11 September 1918 and cleared by the 52nd (Lowland) Division on the 19th. The communal cemetery was extended to the west by the Germans between November 1917 and March 1918. The British Extension, was made between September and October 1918 and was enlarged after the Armistice when graves were brought in from the battlefields on the Cambrai-Bapaume road. The extension now contains 565 Commonwealth burials and commemorations of the First World War. 263 of the burials are unidentified but there are special memorials are erected to 31 casualties known or believed to be buried among them. Other special memorials commemorate three casualties buried in BOURSIES COMMUNAL CEMETERY GERMAN EXTENSION, whose graves could not be found. The cemetery also contains 93 war graves of other nationalities, most of them German.

 

The page at Achiet-le-Grand Communal Cemetery Extension says:

 

Quote

After the Armistice Plot III and most of Plot IV were made when 645 graves, mainly of 1916 and March and August 1918, were brought in from the battlefields around Achiet and from the following small burial grounds:

BOURSIES COMMUNAL CEMETERY GERMAN EXTENSION, containing the graves of 173 German soldiers, one R.A.F. officer, and one Canadian soldier. 

 

Those two statements appear to CONFLICT? Or is it possible that the three they could not find differ from the two that they did find?

 

The last one appears to be correct, as I looked at the Canadians buried there and it has him listed for Boursies, but notice they changed the RAF Officer to a UBS and did not change the CWGC reference! I will have to check if they identified him later or changed their mind.

 

This will take some further research. This sheet does confirm the cemetery location at 57c.J.5.b.35.10.

 

I looked up Harvey's casualty card and it says he died as a POW at Feld Laz 136 Boursies from a leg wound and was buried in Grave 17.

 

doc1962680.JPG

 

The Canadian, Edgar George Harvey has several PA files on the ICRC site:

 

6999

7051

1633 - I don't see him there, may be elsewhere on that list

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:thumbsup: Max! 11633

 

As for the RAF man, looks like CWGC did not upgrade the text as the GRRF agrees. See COG-BR 2112472, an unknown soldier, no designated nationality - makes sense the body was naked.

 

I checked the CWGC, IRCR and Trevor's book. Trevor's book had H. B. Frost but not the CWGC as he was American. He is on page 210 for 26 August 1918 - last entry of the centre column. C141 US17th Purs Sqn. WIA POW? is the entry. The RAF VAULT has him as E. B. FROST, but I would agree the card looks like H.B.

 

So is this the American Pilot H. B. Frost that is in that grave? @fetubi to ping Trevor!

 

1881130000041697.jpg

Edited by laughton
Purs
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Richard,

Just been digging... this AIR 1 document seems to imply he was repatriated.   But the name correlation is peculiar.  I will look some more.

Apparent repat.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or is that abbreviation "reptd" meaning "Reported"?  Could be. The Gorrell note would make more sense then.  So it could be...

 

 

Edited by fetubi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is interesting! http://parr-hooper.cmsmcq.com/2OD/the-biographies/henry-bradley-frost/

 

Quote

In 1920 Josephine Frost travelled to Europe to visit her brother’s grave.33  In 1921, his body was brought home and he was reburied in the family plot in Mt. Pleasant Cemetery in Arlington, Massachusetts.34  He was an only son; neither of his sisters married, so he was the last of his line.35

33  Ancestry.com, U.S. Passport Applications, 1795-1925, record for Josephine Clifford Frost.

34  “War Hero’s Funeral.”

 

Frost-Henry-Bradley-casualty-card-high-r

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a History of the 17th Aero Squadron on Archive.org - found it here:

 

https://archive.org/details/historyof17thaer00claprich/

 

Interestingly three of the pilots are named (Roberts, Bittinger and Jackson) as killed on 26 August 1918 but not Frost. That goes along with the story that they thought he was a POW and not dead that day. Those deaths are also reported in Trevor's text.

 

Here are a few pages - have to run, back later.

 

rhv3hetrl9y91y96g.jpg

borqe6nx96adfk76g.jpg

 

11bfwat4s9jbn796g.jpg

7ekkkjysckzzevf6g.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The HD-SCHD has it as "UNKNOWN SOLDIER" and not notice that the remains had ever been removed.

 

Questions:

  1. Is there still a headstone at the grave 2.M.26?
  2. If yes, what is the inscription?

Find A Grave Entry:

BIRTH 8 Aug 1892

Arlington, Middlesex County, Massachusetts, USA

DEATH 26 Aug 1918 (aged 26)

France

BURIAL

Mount Pleasant Cemetery

Arlington, Middlesex County, Massachusetts, USA Add to Map

PLOT Section I, Lot 439.

 

doc2064484.JPG

 

171421946_1501515022.jpg

171421946_1476805474.jpg

 

171421946_1476805447.jpg

 

 

171421946_1476805448.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now this is getting interesting, as if you look at Grave 2.M.26 on Google Earth there is still a headstone in that location. What does it say?

 

There should be eight (8) headstones between 2.M.26 and 2.M.33 if they all still exist. Clearly there are 8 in the Google image. Not a ground level view but it sure makes it important to see what is on that headstone!

 

Is it possible that they exhumed the American in 1921 and left the headstone in place? The alternative is, did the Sister ever recover the body and return it to the USA?

 

e4hs4lb1u9wgbcd6g.jpg

 

2nxp3gb2vlu30bb6g.jpg

409690geixfzgqt6g.jpg

 

Edited by laughton
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...