dman Posted 4 October , 2018 Share Posted 4 October , 2018 Was wondering what type of guns were mounted on merchant ships as defense against U Boats Remember hearing that early in war used surplus 6 pdr (57 mm) Did merchant ships carry small arms (rifles/pistols) . Know that many trawlers had one or two rifles to destroy mines What able Maxim Pom-poms ? Thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 4 October , 2018 Share Posted 4 October , 2018 Defensively Armed Merchant Ships (DAMS) were issued with second and third line rifles much like those issued to trawlers. One rifle type that was certainly supplied to both trawlers and DAMS was single-shot Remington Rolling Block rifles in 7mm Mauser calibre. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerchantOldSalt Posted 4 October , 2018 Share Posted 4 October , 2018 dman In Volume 3 of Archibald Hurd's history of the Merchant Navy Chapter 4 is completely dedicated to the fitting of the many different guns to DAMS. Volume 2 also describes the small arms issued to Merchant Ships but can't find which Chapter just at present. Suffice to say that owing to the shortage of guns at the beginning of the war and up to 1917, over twenty different makes, types and sizes of guns were fitted including Japanese and Russian guns, the logistics of ammunition supply must have been a nightmare. TH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted 5 October , 2018 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2018 Royal Navy purchased 20,000 Winchester Model 1892 (44-40) and 5,000 of the later 1894 (30-30) to arm boarding and shore parties Most of the modern Lee - Enfields going to the army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 5 October , 2018 Share Posted 5 October , 2018 (edited) TonyE's book British Secondary Small Arms 1914-19 (Vol 4 Royal Navy Small Arms) details contracts for and use of: Arisaka Rifles and Carbines Ross Rifles Chiliean Mausers Brazilian Mausers Remington Rolling Block (7mm) Winchester 1892 Winchester 1894 and "Misc Rifles" (Martini Enflield Rifles and Carbines and Sporting Enfields) Chris Edited 5 October , 2018 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 5 October , 2018 Share Posted 5 October , 2018 I would expect that the 6-pounder armament soon proved incapable, and that most would be fitted with 4" BL guns Mks. II - VI, where these were available and their decks could be modified to mount them satisfactorily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirrer Posted 5 October , 2018 Share Posted 5 October , 2018 Six inch gun aboard Atlantic Transport Line's "Michigan" - from my grandfather's albums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wightspirit Posted 5 October , 2018 Share Posted 5 October , 2018 How deeply do you want to research this? Considerable detail is contained in booklets at the UK National Archives - references ADM116/1463 and ADM116/1536, and ADM137/2903. Dave W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 8 October , 2018 Share Posted 8 October , 2018 I have read where some merchant ships mounted 12 pdr guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 8 October , 2018 Share Posted 8 October , 2018 (edited) It appears from this:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4.7_inch_Mk_V_naval_gun ...that 4.7" Mk.V* (a Japanese-made variant of the Mk.V) was extensively used to arm merchant ships in both World Wars. Edited 10 October , 2018 by MikB Typo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 9 October , 2018 Share Posted 9 October , 2018 (edited) No expert on guns and their mountings I have, however, noted the following as being commonly fitted to WW1 DAMS: 12 pdr 12 cwt; 2 1/2 pdr; 3 pdr and 3 pdr (H); 6 pdr (H); 15 pdr; 13 pdr; 4.7"; 6" and 10" (BT) (to name but a few). The following mountings are also listed: G2; P3; P4. An expert will have to interpret. Edited 9 October , 2018 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARABIS Posted 11 October , 2018 Share Posted 11 October , 2018 If it helps, the attached is from NOTES ON GUNNERY FOR DEFENSIVELY ARMED MERCHANT VESSELS, TRAWLERS AND DRIFTERS 1918. R.N. GUNNERY SCHOOL, CHATHAM Jan. 1918. ARABIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix C Posted 11 October , 2018 Share Posted 11 October , 2018 (edited) I think one of the Technical Histories details with the arming of merchant ships. here it is vol 2, part 13 Defensive Armament of Merchant Ships see here http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs/index.php/The_Technical_History_and_Index and I found this: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4114573 Trade Division Records: Defensively Armed Merchant Ships. Instructions for use of rifles Reference: ADM 137/2905 Description: Trade Division Records: Defensively Armed Merchant Ships. Instructions for use of rifles and machine guns. Instructions for guidance in use, care and maintenance of armament, general instructions to Defensively Armed vessels, use of armament in action, and copy of a lecture by D. T. D. at Whale Island, 1 January 1917. The protection of British Sea Borne Trade, memorandum, February 1916. Edited 11 October , 2018 by Felix C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted 14 October , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 October , 2018 Stirrer Problem found with 6inch guns was that the ammunition was very heavy - at 100 lbs for the shell was at the edge where could be handled by muscle alone power driven machinery required for larger calibers Needed a large crew to pass powder and shells up from magazines, load, train and fire the piece Merchant crews did not have sufficient manpower to handle a weapon this size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 14 October , 2018 Share Posted 14 October , 2018 Just a thought. Not sure if this is helpful, Certainly 4.7" guns were used in WW2 on some anti submarine vessels. Designed as a naval gun, it was, at the time of the Boer War, employed as an army artillery piece on cobbled together mounts. Later it was was mounted on purpose built mounts and used by TA units. Effectively it was a large filed gun. Because of the shortage of artillery it was issued to 7th Inf Div. and although pretty useless used by the BEF until the Somme. I understand there was a plentiful supply of gun tubes (and probably naval mountings) available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanD Posted 11 November , 2018 Share Posted 11 November , 2018 On 12/10/2018 at 05:39, ARABIS said: If it helps, the attached is from NOTES ON GUNNERY FOR DEFENSIVELY ARMED MERCHANT VESSELS, TRAWLERS AND DRIFTERS 1918. R.N. GUNNERY SCHOOL, CHATHAM Jan. 1918. ARABIS. Does this document cover small arms at all? If so in much detail? Regards AlanD Sydney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARABIS Posted 11 November , 2018 Share Posted 11 November , 2018 7 hours ago, AlanD said: Does this document cover small arms at all? If so in much detail? Regards AlanD Sydney Sorry no, it does not cover small arms at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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