wainfleet Posted 29 September , 2018 Share Posted 29 September , 2018 (edited) They're everywhere. And there seems to be a limitless supply of trusting buyers. I would say more but forum rules do not permit naming of names or the discussion of individual items for sale. I hope this post is general enough to be allowed to stand, and that it may give potential buyers cause for careful consideration. If you are not sure about a seller's bona fides, an Internet search will usually give useful hints. Do your research and don't get stung! Edited 29 September , 2018 by wainfleet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 29 September , 2018 Share Posted 29 September , 2018 19 minutes ago, wainfleet said: They're everywhere. And there seems to be a limitless supply of trusting buyers. I would say more but forum rules do not permit naming of names or the discussion of individual items for sale. I hope this post is general enough to be allowed to stand, and that it may give potential buyers cause for careful consideration. If you are not sure about a seller's bona fides, an Internet search will usually give useful hints. Do your research and don't get stung! Fetching good money as far as I've noted over the last couple of months, also quite a few canvas remains of ww1 aircraft with German or British insignia have appeared that seem to do very well. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loganshort Posted 29 September , 2018 Share Posted 29 September , 2018 and most of them look in remarkable museum condition or maybe a little surface rust from a quick dip in the sink. £500 and upwards for such a "rare" item must be making the sellers a little fortune. Is there a blacksmith somewhere churning them out or coming from India? Wouldn't be surprised if plastic versions will soon be on sale in Poundland for Halloween Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_C Posted 29 September , 2018 Share Posted 29 September , 2018 (edited) As WF advises ‘do your reserach’ - it’s never been easier - or at least apply some common sense. I’m also trying to choose my words carefully so as not to infringe Forum rules, but what a shame we’re not allowed to comment on the authenticity of individual items - they do it on the “Antiques Roadshow” every week. This forum is a massive and free resource of expert opinion that could provide an invaluable service to potential buyers without the names of individual dealers or sellers ever being mentioned. If you’re sure it’s fake, the best you can do is report it using the ‘report this item’ button within the individual eBay listing. It only takes a minute and if enough people do it, the listing is sometimes taken down. It’s hard to watch - the endless eBay listings of fake tank masks has produced something of an ‘all you can eat buffet’ attitude among a small number of sellers/dealers. I’ve been collecting for about forty years and genuine tank masks have always been extremely rare. I’ve just counted 15 masks in my eBay (ended) watch list that have sold since just 1st August, together with 6 current active listings - and I’ve probably missed a few. All the best and remember, ‘caveat emptor’. Pete Edited 29 September , 2018 by Pete_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 30 September , 2018 Share Posted 30 September , 2018 hello fwlow collectors i bought 2 of them last year. after precise anthrax 14 analysis, they were both fakes. the dating indicated by the anthrax analysis, was minus 40 years and NOT 100 years as should be the correct, if genuine. as i cannot find anything in english, i am sening you this in greek language. unfortunately, both sellers dissapeared, after claim on ebay. probably they were fakes made in pakistan, not in india. but the ability was amazing. the same is seemed and on several trench masks, on ebay BE CAREFULL. regards, D. Ο άνθρακας 14 υπόκειται σε βήτα διάσπαση: 14C→14N + ηλεκτρόνιο + αντινετρίνο Ένα νετρόνιο του πυρήνα διασπάται για να δώσει ένα πρωτόνιο και την εκπομπή ενός ηλεκτρονίου και ενός αντινετρίνου. Έτσι, ο ασταθής ραδιενεργός άνθρακας 14 μετασχηματίζεται στο σταθερό μη ραδιενεργό ισότοπο άζωτο-14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 30 September , 2018 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2018 Genuine tanks masks are not dated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 1 October , 2018 Share Posted 1 October , 2018 The problem will be the fakes will be deemed genuine and the real ones fakes soon. Those with knowledge will fade away and the new collectors will dominate. More money than sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1418 Posted 1 October , 2018 Share Posted 1 October , 2018 I bought a very nice reproduction mask a few years ago. It is identical in every way just made 95 yeArs after the original. The chap who made them sold one to a dealer who asked if the could be supplied with two every month. The chap turned him down fearing they would be aged and sold on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServiceRumDiluted Posted 1 October , 2018 Share Posted 1 October , 2018 Lots of Flechettes too. It reminds me of this https://youtu.be/PyF7YmHYhYc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Haselgrove Posted 1 October , 2018 Share Posted 1 October , 2018 Dave1418, I wonder if you have compared the one you purchased with an original? Is it identical in every way? I very much doubt it. These copies have been mentioned elsewhere, on another Forum, since 2012. Of course, the copies have been aged by those seeking to deceive but the detail of the copies does not match the originals in a number of aspects and there is no need for scientific analysis of the materials comprising the suspected copy. In my experience the originals are of very high quality. I will not go into detail, but I have never seen a photo of a copy/fake that comes close to an original in terms of quality of production/detail. Luckily, I have had an original for comparison purposes for many years, but those with the funds to purchase one should do much more homework! However, I tend to agree with the comments of Trenchtrotter in #8 above. Regards from one of those likely to fade away soon. Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans k. Posted 2 October , 2018 Share Posted 2 October , 2018 I've had the good fortune to examine two original tank masks in-hand and agree entirely with Michael's conclusions. I have never seen a copy or fake that comes close to an original in terms of quality and details. Hans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1418 Posted 2 October , 2018 Share Posted 2 October , 2018 I have also seen an original next to the copy I have and it’s very good just needs to be aged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark holden Posted 2 October , 2018 Share Posted 2 October , 2018 Sadly good reference works featuring original tank masks are thin (non existent?) so collectors are left to the mercy of those making a quick profit. Those of us who collect also have a responsibility to let heads rule hearts not always easy!. Stepping back its obvious to those on this forum that the quantity of masks for sale is an immediate red flag I am not sure its that clear to newer collectors. Incidentally I am amazed at he number of Great War collectors and enthusiasts who are not members of the forum. Its certainly saved me money and also been to my advantage to have the breadth of experts who give generously of their time and knowledge. Regards to all Mark , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 26 October , 2018 Share Posted 26 October , 2018 They can now be had with the matching leather helmet. Check out a well known internet auction site for a couple of examples. I wonder what’s next? Pieces of tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 26 October , 2018 Author Share Posted 26 October , 2018 42 minutes ago, peregrinvs said: I wonder what’s next? It's currently open season on painted sections of aircraft fabric. Some people have paid breathtaking sums for these fakes. If anyone reading this is now wondering whether they've been conned, an Internet search for "testing laboratory uk paint" shows several institutes that could tell you what you want (or don't want) to know.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 26 October , 2018 Share Posted 26 October , 2018 48 minutes ago, peregrinvs said: They can now be had with the matching leather helmet. Check out a well known internet auction site for a couple of examples. I wonder what’s next? Pieces of tank? First helmet fetched just over £1200, another with face mask ended no bids, wonder how many more will turn up! Dave. 1 minute ago, wainfleet said: It's currently open season on painted sections of aircraft fabric. Some people have paid breathtaking sums for these fakes. If anyone reading this is now wondering whether they've been conned, an Internet search for "testing laboratory uk paint" shows several institutes that could tell you what you want (or don't want) to know.. All ex museum apparently! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 27 October , 2018 Share Posted 27 October , 2018 7 hours ago, wainfleet said: It's currently open season on painted sections of aircraft fabric. Some people have paid breathtaking sums for these fakes. If anyone reading this is now wondering whether they've been conned, an Internet search for "testing laboratory uk paint" shows several institutes that could tell you what you want (or don't want) to know.. Many of these are from a chap in Kent who makes them, frames them and often sells them at French Military fairs. Makes me feel sick when I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 27 October , 2018 Share Posted 27 October , 2018 There are two original tank masks coming up for auction on the 6th November, this being the third part of the Michael Baldwin collection. Auctioneers are C & T., they both come with provenance and are estimated at £800 to £1200 and £1000 to £1500. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 28 January , 2019 Share Posted 28 January , 2019 It seems we are all being far too cynical. One has just appeared on a well known auction site with the explanation “From the recent discovery of a small cache of these found in a Belgian bunker”. Gosh! Presumably the bunker next to it contained all those matching leather helmets that have recently turned up..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 29 January , 2019 Share Posted 29 January , 2019 10 hours ago, peregrinvs said: It seems we are all being far too cynical. One has just appeared on a well known auction site with the explanation “From the recent discovery of a small cache of these found in a Belgian bunker”. Gosh! Presumably the bunker next to it contained all those matching leather helmets that have recently turned up..? There are so many of these mystery bunkers holding boxes of sellable stuff. A few years ago I heard of two dealers from the East of England who visited the Ciney Militaria fair and bought 50 repro German wound badges at €5 each. Back home, buried in the garden for 18 months stained and rusty they were sold for £15 each as coming from the Russian Front. I really don't know how some people sleep at night. Cynical we must be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekb Posted 29 January , 2019 Share Posted 29 January , 2019 Gunner Bailey, You are not being cynical at all, there is so much claptrap and damned lies out there it is depressing. on the internet and at militaria fairs some of the sellers/dealers are embarrassing with their lack of knowledge or ability to lie their teeth off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 29 January , 2019 Share Posted 29 January , 2019 1 hour ago, derekb said: Gunner Bailey, You are not being cynical at all, there is so much claptrap and damned lies out there it is depressing. on the internet and at militaria fairs some of the sellers/dealers are embarrassing with their lack of knowledge or ability to lie their teeth off. I agree completely. At the Ghent Militaria fair in December I think there must have been as much WW2 German insignia in that hall as was produced in a year in the war. Nobody seems to question whether it looks a bit too new. Many militaria dealers try to sell everything and as once was said on a professional business course I was attending "A generalist is a specialist in nothing". So it's always best to buy from dealers who have a single theme on their stall, be it badges, ordnance, uniforms or what ever. You will always get more sense from a specialist. I'm a specialist in grenades and I recently found a rare WW1 prototype grenade on a stall at a fair. The dealer had no idea what he had and I bought the grenade for less that 10% of what I've been subsequently offered for it. Knowledge is everything in antiques and militaria is no different. Sometimes the level of knowledge shown by dealers is shocking. Things are mis-identified, priced with no relation to condition or rarity. One dealer I know just adds 10-15% onto whatever he paid for something, without ever doing any research about it. I do find the level of repro items being sold as genuine to be shocking and in the last few years have seen procession of tank masks and sniper face shields / plates roll across the market - all genuine of course. I heard of one dealer who sold someone a load of 'genuine' SS gear at huge cost, had to go on the run and disappear for 6 months because the buyer, when he found out is was all fake said he'd kill him. A rare case of seller beware I think. The wild west still exists out there. If you find a good dealer - stick with them. It will probably pay off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekb Posted 29 January , 2019 Share Posted 29 January , 2019 I totally agree, I occasionally buy from two dealers who don't carry a huge amount of items, I've found it actually safer to buy from the online (after speaking to them), than to even consider some of the junk available at fairs. I wouldn't say I was an expert but I have a pretty good knowledge of certain items, I find it quite amusing at times to hear the rubbish that some dealers speak about items, in fact I have been known to encourage them for my amusement. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 27 March , 2019 Share Posted 27 March , 2019 I sadly bought one of these from Lockdales auctions last summer and im looking at my options for getting my money back. Has anyone had a professional report done to prove the fake? Id be interested in a copy if possible. Many thanks Nick Blyth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 27 March , 2019 Share Posted 27 March , 2019 (edited) One of the fake masks sold for £85 on e by gum last week. So maybe people are getting wise. I'd recommend that people look at the example in the IWM and see the differences mainly to the eye slits and the Rings that hold the chain mail. Edited 16 April , 2019 by Gunner Bailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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