1917 Small pack. 1918 Lewis Ammo Pouch. Original or Repro.

[GWF1967]

Hi, 

 opinions please on this small pack. Waring & Gillow 1917 stamp to the bag; M.E & Co. 1918 stamp to the strap. 

The second set of photos are of a 1918 date stamped Lewis Gun ammo pouch. Made by H.W. & S?

 I'd like to know if they're real or reproduction. 

 

Edited 25 September , 2018 by GWF1967

[4thGordons]

Not an expert but the Lewis gun pouches may be South African (the U with a broad arrow [Union of South Africa]would indicate such) and they continued to be made into WWII (I have a couple of sets I could dig out to look for comparative markings) is the 1918 stamp on the pouch itself or a strap to which they/it is attached?

Chris

[Andrew Upton]

All look original to me.

 

1 minute ago, 4thGordons said:

Not an expert but the Lewis gun pouches may be South African (the U with a broad arrow [Union of South Africa]would indicate such) and they continued to be made into WWII (I have a couple of sets I could dig out to look for comparative markings) is the 1918 stamp on the pouch itself or a strap to which they/it is attached?

Chris

 

The pouch is made from WW1 made components that were not assembled until the early post-war period. Originally the linking strap/buckle arrangement was intended to finish lower on the pouch (hence the visible printed inverted T shaped marks), but it was found that this meant the pouches tended to lean forward when filled with loaded Lewis gun drums. The solution was to have the strap/buckle higher on the pouch (as here). The U /I\ marks likely means it went out to South Africa during the WW2 period.

[JMB1943]

GWF,

 

The dimensions of the stamp: Waring & Gillow, Ltd., the 1917 date, the size of the rectangle, the size of the font and the font style appear to me to be identical to those

of the SBR pack shown in the thread by kylet183, posted here on 11-Jun-18, under "Small Box respirator markings".

If the latter stamp is genuine, then yours is also.

Regards,

JMB

[Edit: I think it unlikely that both the SBR stamp and yours have been forged.]

Edited 26 September , 2018 by JMB1943
Add info

[peregrinvs]

FYI. The haversack is a third issue 1914 Pattern haversack modified for use with 1908 Pattern webbing.

 

http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1914/components/1914_haversacks.html

 

Looks like a very nice example.

[GWF1967]

7 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

 is the 1918 stamp on the pouch itself or a strap to which they/it is attached?

Chris

Hi Chris, 

Thanks for the U stamp information,  The 1918 stamp is on the inside face of one of the pouch "ears" that fold over the magazine. 

6 hours ago, Andrew Upton said:

All look original to me.

 

 

The pouch is made from WW1 made components that were not assembled until the early post-war period. Originally the linking strap/buckle arrangement was intended to finish lower on the pouch (hence the visible printed inverted T shaped marks), but it was found that this meant the pouches tended to lean forward when filled with loaded Lewis gun drums. The solution was to have the strap/buckle higher on the pouch (as here). The U /I\ marks likely means it went out to South Africa during the WW2 period.

 

6 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

GWF,

 

The dimensions of the stamp: Waring & Gillow, Ltd., the 1917 date, the size of the rectangle, the size of the font and the font style appear to me to be identical to those

of the SBR pack shown in the thread by kylet183, posted here on 11-Jun-18, under "Small Box respirator markings".

If the latter stamp is genuine, then yours is also.

Regards,

JMB

[Edit: I think it unlikely that both the SBR stamp and yours have been forged.]

 

1 hour ago, peregrinvs said:

FYI. The haversack is a third issue 1914 Pattern haversack modified for use with 1908 Pattern webbing.

 

http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1914/components/1914_haversacks.html

 

Looks like a very nice example.

Many thanks for your help folks. 

[JMB1943]

GWF,

 

I have experimented with various colour enhancements to bring up the "W & S" marking, starting point below; I had to omit the possible "H" to avoid including the "U" in the frame, which would have interfered with the enhancement algorithms.

 

This gave the images shown below,

I'll let you do your own interpretation of maker or unit!!

 

Regards,

JMB

Edited 26 September , 2018 by JMB1943
Add info

[Andrew Upton]

It will be MW&S LTD 1918 - "Martin Wright And Sons Limited" - one of the most prolific manufactures of webbing equipment during the war.

 

Edited 26 September , 2018 by Andrew Upton

[GWF1967]

1 hour ago, Andrew Upton said:

It will be MW&S LTD 1918 - "Martin Wright And Sons Limited" - one of the most prolific manufactures of webbing equipment during the war.

 

Great stuff. Many thanks. 

[John Thorne]

It is indeed M.W.&S. LTD. The name of the company was (and still is)  "M. Wright and Sons." The "M." actually stood for "Michael", not "Martin", but the company name just used the first initial, not the entire Christian name, The current MD, Mr. George Wright, is the sixth generation of the family to head the company.