Private Tom Pate East Lancs

[Guest winstonsmith]

My Great Uncle was Private Thomas Pate 240739 of the East Lancashire Territorials. He was wounded and taken prisoner on

21 March 1918. Unlike his brother John Harry, Tom lived through the war.

I am trying to find out what Bn he was serving with. Can anyone help?

[CROONAERT]

He was in Burnley's battalion, the 5th Bn East Lancs .

Dave.

[PhilB]

More likely 2/5 than 1/5 Dave? Phil B

[CROONAERT]

Good point Phil.

The 1/5th wasn't in action on 21st March 1918 (they were in GHQ reserve) so he couldn't have been captured on this date if he was. The 2/5th was in action on that day (which started with them in battalion reserve at Hesbecourt).

So ,yes, I'd go for the 2/5th Battalion.

Here's there cap-badge,by the way ,which is slightly different from the usual as there's no "Egypt" battle honour.

Dave.

[PhilB]

The casualties of the 2/5 Bn for 21-31 March are given as :-

Officers 5Killed, 8Wounded, 18Missing, 5 Wounded at duty.

ORs 43K, 124W, 563 Missing.

Total = 766

[Guest winstonsmith]

Thank you very much Gents. That was a very speedy response and greatly appreciated. I'm a little ignorant on these things, could you tell me what exactly does 2/5th denote?

His brother John Harry joined the East Lancs at Burnley as well would he also therefore be in the 5th Bn?

[PhilB]

With the expansion of the army in WW1, a Territorial Bn, say the 5th, was allowed to raise extra battalions. The first extra would become the second fifth (2/5 Bn), the second the third fifth (3/5 Bn) and so on. The original 5th became the first fifth (1/5 Bn). Phil B

[Guest winstonsmith]

Ah I see. Thank you for that Phil.

[CROONAERT]

His brother John Harry joined the East Lancs at Burnley as well would he also therefore be in the 5th Bn?

Not necessarily. There was a complete Company from Burnley in the 11th Bn East Lancs (and it's "feeder", the 12th) and there were also many Burnley men in the 1st Battalion, 7th Battalion and the 9th Battalion (along with some in all the other battalions too!).

Dave.

[Guest winstonsmith]

Thanks for that Dave. You came up with Toms details pretty fast.

Any chance you can tell me what East Lancs Bn Pte John Harry Pate 37638 was with?

Big ask I know but I'd love to know.

Thanks for all your help.

Tony

[CROONAERT]

Any chance you can tell me what East Lancs Bn Pte John Harry Pate 37638 was with?

Seeing as he'd spent 3 periods in France by the time of his discharge in Aug.1915, he'd have to have been in either the 1st or the 2nd Battalion. (None of the other battalions had had enough service in France by this time to be considered as possibilities).

It can be difficult to tell which battalion he served in from just his number. Do you have any more info about his service (pre-Aug.1915)?

Any clues on his MIC or the medal roll?

Dave.

[Fred W]

Dave,

Would it help you to know that John Hy Pate was discharged as a time expired man on August 24 1915. Re-enlisted probably the following year and was Pte 102566 J H Pate Machine Gun Corps when he was killed.

Hope you don't mind me adding this Tony?

Fred W

[Guest winstonsmith]

Dave

I'm afraid that's all I know about his early war. Still you've narrowed it down

for me. Thanks for that. Fred, by all means feel free to jump in at any time.

I'm often unsure as to what information is relevant in tracing these things.