Mametz wood ads ccs

[BIFFO]

All the books I have on Mametz never mention what happened to the wounded.

did regiments have specific ads or ccs where the wounded would be taken, or was it a case of get them to where ever as quickly as poss.

I have a man 10th batt welsh reg J Powell 22260 GSW 10-7-16 next record I have 1st Northern Gen hospital 2-10-16,is there a way of finding out what happened in between 

Biffo 

[robertb]

The main ADS was just beside Carnoy called the Minden Post (opposite Caftet Wood - trench map 62D NE2) .  The evacuated wounded were taken there via two routes - either west past Mametz village or probably more usually through Caterpillar Wood and down the Carnoy Valley.

The War Diary of the ADMS 38th (Welsh) Div WO95/2543 (Page 160ff) gives a good explanation of the evacuation route of the battle.

CCS 34 was used for 115Bde, which is in Daour.

Edited 21 September , 2018 by robertb
Further information

[petestarling]

There was also an aid post set up in Queen Nullah. 

The field ambulance allocated to the Brigade would evacuate to a ADS/ MDS and then onwards to a CCS as detailed in the ADMS orders. If you look at the war diary for the ADMS of the Welsh Division there is more than likely operational orders attached to it and that will give locations of RAP's ADS, CCS etc. The TNA reference is WO95/2543/1

[BIFFO]

Top men,

is the ADMS on ancestry ?

[robertb]

Yes.  RAMC 38th Welsh etc.

[BIFFO]

[Bernard_Lewis]

Some relevant info here, Biff: http://mosj.cogdesign.everycity.co.uk/research/projects/remembering-welsh-dragons-somme-130th-st-john-field-ambulance/

 

Bernard

[TEW]

If there's anything missing from the suggested adms diaries the ddms diary for the relevant corps should help. Medical Arrangements tend to veer towards corps organisation at this time  rather than by division. This gives the ddms more control over available resources. Will have a look tomorrow, not on ancestry.

TEW

[TEW]

I have more details that I can post up on Monday. What robertb says about the ADS at Minden Post and evacuation routes also shows in DDMS XV Corps diary. From ADS they were taken to the MDS in Morlancourt and from there to either 34 or 45 CCS which I have at Vecquemont.

More on Monday.

TEW

[TEW]

I've just checked through his record and see that he actaully arrived at 1st Northern Gen hospital 16/7/1916 not 2/10/1916. He has no B.103 sheet that would normally show with dates which AT took to him to a port and then which ship took him back to the UK. Anyway that doesn't make a great deal of difference to the below.

There are links in the chain of evacuation that can only be conjectural without a B.103, so EG impossible to know which CCS he went to, impossible to know which Ambulance Train evacuated him from CCS, impossible to know which port he went to, impossible to know if he had a hospital stay in France before being shipped back to the UK and impossible to say which ship took him back to the UK. Although as he was in 1st Northern Gen hospital 16/7/1916 I suspect he arrived in the UK that day or 15/7/1916.

 

Some details from 4^th Army DMS diary & DDMS diary XV Corps.

38^th Division field ambulances  took over positions held by 7^th Division night of 7/7/1916. These were MDS at Morlancourt and ADS at Minden Post & Queen’s Nullah, the latter doesn’t seem to feature a great deal by 10/7/1916.

38 ADMS has RAMC order No. 15 6/7/1916 which gives evacuation routes etc for the forthcoming operation. But by 10/7/1916 the DDMS of XV Corps had changed things.

8/7/1916. Order for all wounded of XV Corps to be evacuated to 34CCS and 45CCS at Vecquemont except abdominal cases and those needing immediate operations.

9/7/1916. Alternative evacuation route for 38^th Division wounded suggested; From Minden Post & Mametz along Mametz – Fricourt – Meaulte road to Morlancourt MDS. Previous route had been by Field Ambulance cars south from Minden Post towards Bray-sur-Somme veering off west to Morlancourt MDS.

10/7/1916. 2 Buses sent to ADMS 38^th Div. to help clear heavy casualties from Minden Post ADS. Later same day 12 Field Ambulance Cars sent to assist clearing wounded from ADS to MDS.

From Noon 10^th July to Noon 11^th July XV Corps had evacuated 1861 men, 1631 from 38^th Division. All evacuated to 34 & 45 CCSs at Vecquemont 30 miles away.

Late on 11/7/1916 38th Division relieved from line.

Here things get a little conjectural, it would be impossible to say which CCS at Vecquemont he went to. They simply took in wounded until full then shut down and the other would re-open and take in and so on.

34 CCS has;

Midnight 9/7/1916 to Midnight 10/7/1916 admitted 860

Midnight 10/7/1916 to Midnight 11/7/1916 admitted 486

45 CCS has no figures other than first entry for 11/7/1916 is that 2000 had passed through the CCS in the last 36 hours.

DMS diary has tables of Ambulance Train movements which includes those from Vecquemont ie all the CCSs there.

10^th July.

No. 25. 12.45 to Boulogne with 473 ORs

No. 7. 15.30 to Boulogne with 712 ORs

No. 9. 23.30 to Rouen with 622 ORs

11^th July

No. 6. 7.15 to Boulogne with 854 ORs

No. 22. 12.45 to Rouen with 374 ORs

No. 101 TAT. 17.30 to Rouen with 994 ORs

Barges 193 & 194 17.30 to Abbeville with 60 ORs.

Impossible to say which AT he was on, that depends on what time he arrived at the CCS and how long it took to deal with the GSW to left Knee & Waist?

I see from his pension record that he arrived at 1st Northern Gen hospital 16/7/1916 not 2/10/1916.

As an example I have Rouen Base DDMS diary that shows the above Rouen AT arrivals and ship departures for UK;

12^th July. St Patrick, 290 ORS

13^th July. Western Australia, 296 ORS

14^th July. St Andrew, 337 ORs & St George 338 ORs

There would be similar for Boulogne & Abbeville. But of course he may have been hospitalised in Rouen, Boulogne or Abbeville for a day or 2 before returning to the UK.

So, you have three probable ports of departure with four ship departures from just Rouen.

TEW

[BIFFO]

what can I say TEW other  than a VERY big thank you for your time/trouble never thought for a moment that I would get so much detail.

don't like to tell you this BUT my next Welshman was gassed AND shot 

but that's another story 

[TEW]

No worries, post him up when you're ready.

TEW