Who was this young Scottish piper 1914 ?

[Steven Broomfield]

2 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Pratt 1919 has a good DCM citation and rank of Sgt. Would the lad in the portrait have risen to all this so quickly?

     

 

I suspect we can rule him out .

 

charlie

 

Given the exigencies of the service, going from private to sergeant in a matter of days is not unknown.

[Heid the Ba]

1 hour ago, Marilyne said:

I can't get my head around how fast you guys can look these things up...

so the contenders would be around 20 years old... I really thought from the pictures that the guy was underage. But on the other hand, looking at the 18year old we now have running around in the barracks, they do look VERY young...

And I guess the artist gave himself a bit of liberty too... the pdrawing would not have the same appeal to us if it showed a seasoned soldier with the pipes in hand. Especially in the first one, one can see the contrast between the innocent piper and the 2 guys behind him, standing a bit like bodyguards, watching over "their" piper.

 

M. 

I did wonder of he might be older than we thought, but I'm at the age where police officers look like children so I may have lost all perspective.

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, Steven Broomfield said:

going from private to sergeant in a matter of days is not unknown

It was as much the wording of the DCM that made me unsure that he would be 'mature' enough as v. young piper.  But war time brought out unexpected qualities in many.

Charlie

[charlie962]

On 20/09/2018 at 15:22, Gunga Din said:

a possible match for No. 1460 Dmr J Ross

14 Roll says no 1756 ? (wounded Drummer, Daily CasList 25/2/15)      -1460 is J Scott

                        

 

FWR have a J Ross Drummer 2nd Bn 1856 getting the 1911 Delhi Durbar medal- this might be the man(boy) on the 1911 census?

 

I cannot find any press clippings re his wounding (other than CasList)

[Gunga Din]

11 hours ago, charlie962 said:

14 Roll says no 1756 ? (wounded Drummer, Daily CasList 25/2/15)      -1460 is J Scott

                        

 

FWR have a J Ross Drummer 2nd Bn 1856 getting the 1911 Delhi Durbar medal- this might be the man(boy) on the 1911 census?

 

I cannot find any press clippings re his wounding (other than CasList)

 

1756 Agreed. I don't know how 1460 Scott crept in (six men down on the A-Z list on the roll.) Mea culpa. 

 

Here are the four Ross on the 1911 Census. If you need the whole BW Census on Excel send me a PM. 

 

Name                 YOB    Age  POB            Age 1914

Charles Ross    1885    26    Edinburgh      29
John Ross         1895    16    Edinburgh      19
John Ross         1888    23    Aberdeen       26
Donald Ross      1876    35   Inverness       38

 

It seems unlikely that a 16 year old on the 1911 Census could have enlisted much before 1910...We know from surving Service Records that No. 1791 joined on 4th Feb 1910 so a number of 1756 (only 35 numbers earlier) fits in nicely with enlistment in very late 1909 or January 1910. A bit of digging would finesse this number to a more specific date. 

 

Discharged no longer fit due to wounds might be worth following up in the SWB rolls. Searching the Edinburgh papers might also be worth a shot. 

Even if we can find service records for all these men, you will still need a photo for proof. Pipes and Drums often featured in photos, so it might be worth contacting the Museum and asking if they have any photos of the pipes and drums for the 2nd Bn from 1910-1914.If they do and any of them include names, that is one of the ways you might solve this conundrum. 

 

Gunga Din.

 

 

Edited 22 September , 2018 by Gunga Din

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, Gunga Din said:

Discharged no longer fit due to wounds might be worth following up in the SWB rolls. Searching the Edinburgh papers might also be worth a shot. 

I saw nothing extra in SWB Roll nor papers (I have somewhat limited access) ; I would have expected local reporting in those early days.

 

1 hour ago, Gunga Din said:

contacting the Museum

good idea, particularly for photo. Given that we are sure it is 2nd Bn BW it should be of interest to them too.

 

Charlie

[charlie962]

On 22/09/2018 at 11:40, Gunga Din said:

so it might be worth contacting the Museum

OK, so I have contacted the Museum and apparently they have a very enthusiastic Pipe Major who may respond in due course, I hope. I will update this thread when I hear anything.

 

Charlie

[Skipman]

16 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

OK, so I have contacted the Museum and apparently they have a very enthusiastic Pipe Major

 

Charlie

 

I may have met this very enthusiastic pipe-major, he may be related top one of the pipers already mentioned.

 

Mike

[charlie962]

The Museum's initial response is to be doubtful that these are Black Watch. They feel the tartan is more akin to Seaforths. I have replied mentioning the absence of dicing on the glengarry and noting that Black Watch pipers wore a different tartan(Royal Stewart ?) to ordinary soldiers. I await their response but I am no expert on tartans. This photo off the internet suggests that one could have 3 light stripes on a BW piper's tartan and thus might match the drawings?

 

Any experts ?

Charlie

[Marilyne]

Aaargh... so we're back to square one??? 

 

 

[gordon92]

On 27/09/2018 at 08:32, charlie962 said:

The Museum's initial response is to be doubtful that these are Black Watch. They feel the tartan is more akin to Seaforths. I have replied mentioning the absence of dicing on the glengarry and noting that Black Watch pipers wore a different tartan(Royal Stewart ?) to ordinary soldiers. I await their response but I am no expert on tartans. This photo off the internet suggests that one could have 3 light stripes on a BW piper's tartan and thus might match the drawings?

 

Any experts ?

Charlie

I think you are on target, Charlie.  Perhaps, the Museum is not entirely up to speed on these matters.

[charlie962]

13 hours ago, gordon92 said:

I think you are on target

I think the original suggestion by a recently retired gentleman was correct and all comments since seem to confirm this. I await a follow up reply from the Museum.

Charlie

[Guest]

Gents,

My grandfather was John Duthie - I can confirm that the piper in the sketch bears no resemblance to him.

[charlie962]

14 hours ago, JohnF1 said:

My grandfather was John Duthie - I can confirm that the piper in the sketch bears no resemblance to him

Thank you,John, that is fairly definitive ! If you have any other ideas or information it would be greatly apreciated.

 

Charlie

 

PS why didn't I get a notification of this post since I did start this thread ?