Private William james Mitchell

[Nikki Mitchell]

Hi, I’m wondering if anybody can help me with further research on my great uncle who was killed in action aug 19th 1918 defending the Hohenzollern Redoubt, I’ve been to his grave but can’t find any info on his movements or where I can obtain his medals as I’ve been led to believe his mother sent them back 

thanks

nikki 

[Mark1959]

Welcome!

Is this his CWGC record?

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/188554/mitchell,-william-james/

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Assuming he is Mitchell, Pte. William James, 21873 Gloucestershire Regiment, his Medal Index Card shows that he was entitled to the British War Medal and Victory Medal. The card would suggest that the medals were issued, and there is no endorsement on the card to say that they were returned nor undeliverable.

[Nikki Mitchell]

Hi both yes that is him, if there is any way you could advise on how I could possibly further research I’d be grateful 

[Mark1959]

Nikki

It is a matter of piecing together what is available and using the forum as a sounding board. There are experts on many aspects of the Great War who are prepared to helpa novice researcher

So we have the CWGC link above. There are some docs attached to this record and you should look at these

It is always taking a look at the advice on the below link for general pointers

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/

The Medal Index Card on ancestry tells us little, He was awarded the British War and Victory Medal. This merely tells us he did not serve in theatre before the start of 1916. Hardly surprising given his age. The index card is an index for the roll. This tells us he served in the 14th Battalion Glos before he served in the 1st,

There are a few other items to look at

Soldiers Died in the Great War list. This tells us he was born and enlisted in Bath

There is the Soldiers Effects Register which is useful in that it provides details of the War Gratuity his family received. In this case £13 10s. (paid to his mother Agnes E). No expert on the war gratuity but I believe that means he served from around Dec 1915. So he was clearly underage at the start of that service. The expert on this should be along soon to confirm. 

The effects record implies he made a will and a quick search shows it still exists and is available here for £10. Be warned it is likely to be just a handwritten note in a paybook or such like

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Wills?Surname=mitchell&SurnameGrants=mitchell&FirstName=william james&FirstNameGrants=william james&YearOfDeath=1918&YearOfDeathGrants=1918&MonthOfDeath=8&MonthOfDeathGrants=8&DayOfDeath=19&DayOfDeathGrants=19&RegimentNumber=21873&AdvancedSearch=True&IsGrantSearch=False&IsCalendarSearch=False#soldiers

It would seem that his service papers have not survived. So it will be a matter of piecing together what we can from the evidence available. 

If you have ancestry then I can provide the links to the above data.If not it is often worth going to your local library to access.

 

The 14th Glos were disbanded in Feb 1918 and many of the men went to the 13th Glos. So we know he could not have been with the 14th after then. As it shows 14th on the medal roll one can perhaps assume he was in France before then and must have been with the 1st after then. The War Diary for the 1st Glos is also on Ancestry and is available from the National Archives - this tells you what they were up to. This confirms they were at the Hohenzollern Right Sub-Sector (Front Line). The entry for the 19th says:

"Battalion sub sector shelled by hostile artillery at midday and also at 11 pm. Casualties 2 OR Killed, 1 wounded."

OR is Other Ranks (not officers).

If you look at the Grave Registration form on the CWGC site you will see there is a L/Cpl W Jones below him also 1 Glos killed on the 19th. I assume they were the 2 unfortunate ORs. The other man is Walter Edward Jones who came from Cheltenham.

Edited 18 September , 2018 by Mark1959

[ss002d6252]

Taking the war gratuity (figure in red) allows us to derive

 

www.wargratuity.uk

 

Craig

[ss002d6252]

By way of comparison #21878 attested 11 Aug 1915 - I would suspect that this may be a case where Mitchell was paid a month short on his war gratuity.

 

Craig

[Nikki Mitchell]

Oh wow thank you soooo very much I’m overwhelmed with your help xx

[Nikki Mitchell]

Please forgive me I’ve tried to order copy of the will but it doesn’t seem to let me put it in a basket to pay, is this normal? 

Nikki 

[ss002d6252]

21 minutes ago, Nikki Mitchell said:

Please forgive me I’ve tried to order copy of the will but it doesn’t seem to let me put it in a basket to pay, is this normal? 

Nikki 

It's worked OK for me , it may have been a temporary glitch.

 

Craig

[Nikki Mitchell]

As you kindly helped me in my search I thought I would let you see my pictures from when I was him on his 100th anniversary 

 

[Nikki Mitchell]

Hi guys, I’m doing some research into the 14th battalion that my great uncle appears to have served in before being disbanded, my question is this battalion appears to be one classed as the bantam battalions, if so we’re all soldiers in this battalion under 5’3?

thanks

[kenf48]

As he was apparently under age when he enlisted he was probably physically immature as well.  The majority of the original recruits would have been less than 5’ 3”.  The 450 men who joined May 1915 when recruitment began were described in the local press as, “though short, are of sturdy build capable of endurance and hard work.”  There may have been some flexibility to bring the Battalion up to  strength before it was taken over by the War Office if they couldn’t get sufficient numbers of Bantams, but essentially the original recruits were shorter in stature.

 

There is a paragraph on the LLT https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/definitions-of-units/the-bantams/ follow the link to the 35th Division, initially the more successful of the Bantam Divisions but by 1916 the character of the Battalions had changed.

 

 There is a book on the Bantams https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bantams-Sidney-Allinson/dp/1848840306 which gives a good introduction.  My interest is the 40th Division and I thought the book was a bit lightweight, but readable.

 

Ken 

[Nikki Mitchell]

Thanks ken once again amazing 

 

 

[Nikki Mitchell]

Morning anyone able to answer, I’ve been talking to my dad about when we first heard about my great uncles death, there is a story that his uniform was sent back to ny great grandmother and that she put it on a bonfire because of the sadness she felt, would this have been a thing that happened?

nikki 

[kenf48]

15 hours ago, Nikki Mitchell said:

Morning anyone able to answer, I’ve been talking to my dad about when we first heard about my great uncles death, there is a story that his uniform was sent back to ny great grandmother and that she put it on a bonfire because of the sadness she felt, would this have been a thing that happened?

nikki 

 

While anything is possible it is very unlikely but we cannot know for certain.  There is usually an element of truth in family stories which may become more elaborate through the generations.

 

Uniforms were sent home early in the war, along with other effects but for practical reasons the practice ceased very early on.  It was not commonplace in 1918.  

 

Personal effects were returned, and there are often examples in the service records but these were generally small personal items e.g. pipe, photos, bible etc.  As he was apparently killed by shell fire, it suggests his uniform was damaged. 

The Cemetery is associated with Field Ambulances who may, or may not have removed his clothing, probably not if he was DoA.  Men were frequently buried in their uniform and if removed in a medical facility it was sent for cleaning as it was invariably muddy, lice infested and in poor condition.

As noted in the article below salvage was the order of the day.

 

The LLT has an informative article on burial practice https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/burial-clearance-and-burial/

which highlights many of the issues.

 

Ken

Edited 9 January , 2019 by kenf48

[Kath]

So his father was serving as well.

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/264751-private-james-mitchell-4178-sli-and-206236/?tab=comments#comment-2685107

 

Bath Chronicle and Weekly Gazette 07 September 1918

Edited 9 January , 2019 by Kath

[Nikki Mitchell]

Thank you both so much, I always appreciate so much the replies I’ve had in this site as my great uncle was one of so so many who perished 

a very grateful great niece and great granddaughter x