Cap badge distorted by reflection

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, MaxD said:

Other facts about Henry William.  States previous service with 1st Volunteer Battalion Royal West Kents.  Has PS number, starts with 24 (Reserve) Bn Middx (formed from elements of 16 PS Bn).  No L Cpl appointment but may have been unpaid/acting to wear stripe?  Year of birth calculated as 1884.

 

Max

 

What is “PS Number”, Max?

[Steven Broomfield]

Public Schools

[MaxD]

Prefix for Public School Battalion(s) in RF and Middx.  Although his first recorded battalion is 24 (Res) Middx, LLT tells me it was formed from depot companies of 16 Battalion Middx. (Public Schools)

 

Max

[FROGSMILE]

Thanks Steven and Max, I will pass this detail on to the relevant family.  My gut feeling is that they were not of the right social class to be associated with public schools, but I’ll see what they say. Thanks for all your help with this. 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

33 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

...but I’ll see what they say.

 

...and if you could ask them if they could get the image scanned again at 1200 DPI or even higher, I'm sure it would greatly help in identifying the badge.

[MaxD]

Should have added more family info for possible ID.

 

Address in 1915 Vicarage Cottage, Coleman's Hatch Sussex, he a gardner

Wife (m 1909) Hattie Annie Duke nee Harman

Daughter 1910 Edith Rosa

Southborough address 1918.10 Castle Street

 

Max

 

Name Hattie unconnected with headgear in the pic

;

[FROGSMILE]

Thanks Max, I’m waiting to see if there’s a public schools connection, although my gut feeling is there’s not.

[FROGSMILE]

On 17/09/2018 at 15:32, MaxD said:

Other facts about Henry William.  States previous service with 1st Volunteer Battalion Royal West Kents.  Has PS number, starts with 24 (Reserve) Bn Middx (formed from elements of 16 PS Bn).  No L Cpl appointment but may have been unpaid/acting to wear stripe?  Year of birth calculated as 1884.

 

Max

 

I think that it is probably/possibly Henry William in the photo Max.  The 1st VB was previously the Kent Volunteer Fencibles, whose cap badge I attach.  Might this be the badge that we see in the photo?

 

Edited 19 September , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[MaxD]

Don't think so.  The scroll looks ok but there aren't enough frills and furbelows at the top of the badge.  I do lean towards the Middlesex, I see the Prince of Wales feathers that Dai bach highlights.

 

I would also downplay the public school connection.  I can't imagine that every soldier was the product of a public school, as a gardner perhaps to a large house, there may have been a bit of string pulling?

 

 I posted some post war family info to assist with identification on the related thread - did that not ring any family bells?

 

Max

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

15 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

  Might this be the badge that we see in the photo?

 

I agree with Max, no I don't think this is the badge.

[Steven Broomfield]

I know little of the 16th Middlesex, but I do recall Martin Middlebrook featuring them in The First Day on the Somme, and my recollection is that none of them seemed to be Public Schoolboys.

I'm out on a limb here, but my first thought when I saw it was Border of Bedfordshire Regiments. The scroll at the bottom and what looked like a Maltese Cross but with 'stuff' round it hit me.

 

And please don't ask me how you make a Maltese cross.

[FROGSMILE]

Thank you all, your reasoning as to why the VTC badge does not match is compelling and I now have more information from the family.  The family member has stated the following:

 

“I am pretty sure the Henry William Bonwick who died was not my Henry Bonwick. However, there were many similarities.

 

My Grandfather only ever mentioned that he had lost one brother, which was Frederick James.

 

The Henry William that you unearthed and who died, was born in South borough, Kent in 1884. He was married to Hettie Annie Duke Harman in Buckland ( near Dover, Kent) in 1909. In 1911, he had a daughter, Edith Rosa. He was a gardener . He was in the Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex) Regiment.  His father was Albert Bonwick.

 

My Henry Bonwick was born in 1878 in East Grinstead, Suffolk. He married Florence Kate Luffman in 1904 in Tonbridge, Kent. He had one son, Henry Cecil Hobart, who was born in Tunbridge Wells in 1908. He worked on the Railways. His parents were Henry Bonwick and Jane Bates (Betts). I cannot find when he died, but it was before 1939. He could be the one in the Royal West Kent Regiment. Florence and son Cecil (as he was known) then lived in Croydon, Surrey and Henry was not mentioned. Florence died in Croydon in 1950. Cecil died in Torquay in 1979. He also worked on the Railways. Dad did talk about a Cecil. He was two years younger than Dad. I remember someone saying something about someone living at the coast. It must have been Cecil.

You mentioned two Henry Bonwicks - one was 5ft4 and unable to write and the other 5ft7 and could sign his name. The Bonwick men were always tall. Stan was about 6ft. My Grandfather could write, as well as Stan, so I guess the other two boys could as well. I am sure my Grandfather said all his brothers went to war.”

Edited 21 September , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[MaxD]

By coincidence, "our" Henry William enlisted in East Grinstead (which is in Sussex not Suffolk as the family have it).  OK forget him.

 

1878 Henry was getting o a bit by the time of the Great War - could the photo be of someone else, the man doesn't look 36 plus or does he?

 

A H Bonwick of the West Kents was in the Boer War - not this photo though??.

 

Dead end??

 

Max.

Edited 21 September , 2018 by MaxD

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, MaxD said:

By coincidence, "our" Henry William enlisted in East Grinstead (which is in Sussex not Suffolk as the family have it).  OK forget him.

 

1878 Henry was getting o a bit by the time of the Great War - could the photo be of someone else, the man doesn't look 36 plus or does he?

 

A H Bonwick of the West Kents was in the Boer War - not this photo though??.

 

Dead end??

 

Max.

 

You make good points Max, I will forward your comments.  I'm increasingly puzzled by the whole thing, not least because the dimensions and shape of the cap badge in the photo have me totally stumped.

Edited 21 September , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

1 hour ago, MaxD said:

Dead end??

 

That would be a shame.

I don't want to sound a bore, but I will repeat again, that if the original photo could be rescanned at a much higher resolution, the badge will give up a lot of its secrets.

The original image is 500 X 796 pixels, at a resolution of 300 DPI. This equates to a small photo about 1.5 X 2.5 inches.

As a test, I scanned an old photo of similar proportions at 1200 DPI and found the detail of even small objects quite remarkable. 

Not to put too fine a point on it, I think it would solve which regiment this man belongs to and possibly the case.

[Madmeg]

How about Frederick Bonwick who appears to have been a corporal in the RFA?

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

On 13/09/2018 at 22:05, Sepoy said:

I have played around with the brightness and contrast of the photo, to make the badge a little clearer.

 

 

Can I ask how the badge in your image has increased from 20 x 15 pixels in the first image to about 50 x40 in your crop?

Just wondering if all the detail we're seeing in the crop version is really there... if you get what I mean?

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

 

That would be a shame.

I don't want to sound a bore, but I will repeat again, that if the original photo could be rescanned at a much higher resolution, the badge will give up a lot of its secrets.

The original image is 500 X 796 pixels, at a resolution of 300 DPI. This equates to a small photo about 1.5 X 2.5 inches.

As a test, I scanned an old photo of similar proportions at 1200 DPI and found the detail of even small objects quite remarkable. 

Not to put too fine a point on it, I think it would solve which regiment this man belongs to and possibly the case.

 

I will forward your suggestion to the owner of the photo, an elderly lady, and see if she has the technical knowledge and opportunity to do that.

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Madmeg said:

How about Frederick Bonwick who appears to have been a corporal in the RFA?

 

One of the two names mentioned in the opening post is known to have been RFA, Meg, and it now seems almost certain that it was Frederick.  That makes it likely that the man in the photo is Henry/Harry, but within the family (of a friend of mine) it is not known which regiment is shown.  I have been stumped because I do not recognise the unusual shape and dimensions of the badge in the image.

Edited 21 September , 2018 by FROGSMILE

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

12 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

I will forward your suggestion to the owner of the photo, an elderly lady, and see if she has the technical knowledge and opportunity to do that.

 

Thank you Frogsmile, I'm sure she would have a computer savvy neighbour or relative who could do this for her.

[Stebie9173]

One of my relatives served with 16th Public Schools Battalion Middlesex Regiment from 1917 - he was an illegitimate, illiterate fen bargeman. I think the battalion had moved away from its Public Schools demographic by then!

 

 

Steve.

[BillyH]

2 hours ago, Stebie9173 said:

One of my relatives served with 16th Public Schools Battalion Middlesex Regiment from 1917 - he was an illegitimate, illiterate fen bargeman. I think the battalion had moved away from its Public Schools demographic by then!

 

Certainly sounds like it   

or was he just the Baldrick of the battalion ???

 

BillyH.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

2 hours ago, Stebie9173 said:

One of my relatives served with 16th Public Schools Battalion Middlesex Regiment from 1917 - he was an illegitimate, illiterate fen bargeman. I think the battalion had moved away from its Public Schools demographic by then!

 

 

Steve.

 

I thought illegitimacy and illiteracy were the raison d'etre for Public Schools?

 

[MaxD]

85098 Cpl Frederick James Bonwick RFA who died July 1917 left his effects to "Mother Mrs Jane Homewood"  She was formerly Mrs Bonwick .  Not him in the photo definitely wrong badge.

 

Henry (no second name in the four censuses) was living in Tunbridge Wells in 1911 with wife Florence.  (photo in Tun Wells - your truly home town - often disgusted).

 

Happy that it is not the gardner.  No other candidates so far.

 

Max

 

Edited 21 September , 2018 by MaxD

[MaxD]

Last thought for today.  Bearing his age in mind, are we perhaps looking for a man whose records were among the 60% or so of Great War records ….etc etc  and who did not serve overseas so who is to all intents and purposes invisible?

 

Max