3rd Bn KRRC India 1920-23

[Bootneck63]

Thank you for getting back so quickly. The reason I thought it might be 5712 was the name was the same and the MM, also see he was a Sgt in 1919, but it may well not be him. Records online are pretty scant, I have applied for 5712 service record from MOD to see if that helps, as for Gospel Oak the only information I have about them is they lived in North London and married in the Holy trinity Church, Grays Inn, London which is again North London.

 

[MBrockway]

There is a John and Julia McCARTHY living in Tottenham in the 1939 National Register.

 

Full address: 5 Gedeney Road, Tottenham, London, N17 7DY, which is here

 

John McCARTHY.  Born: 25 Feb 1884.  Occptn: Bill Posterer

Julia J. McCARTHY. Born: 01 Jun 1891.  Occptn: Inspector, ?Army Webbing Equipment?

 

Also there, is Gwenllian L. BURT.  Born 26 Aug 1913.  Same occupation as Julia.  She almost certainly matches to a Gwenllian L BURT, whose birth as registered in the Cardiff Registration District (RD) in Q4 1913.  *Probably* a lodger, so I've taken her no further.  Could be a relative though.

 

Mills Equipment Co of military webbing fame had their factory at the Imperial Works in Fountayne Rd, Tottenham, London N15 4QL (which still exists, albeit split into multiple small industrial units).  It is here near to Tottenham Hale station and is approx 2 miles to the SE of Gedeney Road.  I'd say it's quite likely the two ladies worked there.

 

 

There is a marriage between John McCARTHY (24) and Julia BARNES (20) at Holy Trinity Church, Gray's Inn Road, Holborn, WC1X 8JY on 23 Aug 1908.

 

On 23 Aug 1908 the McCarthy couple on the 1939 National Register would have been 24 yrs 5 months for John and 17 yrs 2 months for Julia.  An excellent match for John and one can think of reasons why Julia may have inflated her age up to 20, so I think this is almost certainly the same couple.

 

Holy Trinity Church was demolished in the 1930s and replaced by an Art Deco apartment block, Trinity Court, 254 Gray's Inn Road, which is here and see here for the church and Trinity Court on side-by-side maps.

 

Julia's address is 49 Harrison Street, Kings Cross, London WC1H 8JF, which has been redeveloped.  See here for 1914 and present maps side-by-side.  Her father, James Barnes, is listed as a Cabman.

 

John's address is 8 Chapel Street and his occupation is Packer.  His father, William McCarthy, is recorded as Deceased.  Chapel Street has been renamed.  It is either Rugby Street, Holborn, London WC1N (see maps here and StreetView here) or Chapel Market, The Angel, Islington, N1 (see here).  The Holborn option is closer to Harrison Street and Gray's Inn Road, so is probably the more likely.

On 20 Sep 1912, they have a daughter Julia Hannah McCARTHY.  They're living at Julia's address at 49 Harrison Street and John is listed as a Carman.

 

A son, John McCARTHY, is born on 11 Sep 1914.  By the time of his baptism on 24 Jan 1915, they're living at 2 Frederick Place, King's Cross and John, Sr., is listed as Soldier.  Frederick Place has been renamed and is now Ampton Place, King's Cross, WC1X 0LZ.  See map here.  Some of the original buildings survive, but No 2 appears to have been lost.

 

There are a number of other children including some earlier than 1912, when the mother's maiden name first began to get recorded.  I haven't researched these as I'd like some confirmation that I have the correct family.

 

Can you link yourself back to this couple and their children?

 

If this is the right couple, then their children would include one of your grandparents.  If you can't make the link yet, then perhaps the name of your McCarthy grandparent will give me enough to connect them back to you.

 

Lastly, I am 75% confident that I can connect this John McCARTHY back to 5712 Sgt John McCARTHY, MM, of 1/KRRC, 10/KRRC and probably 3/KRRC post war, but that'll be another long post and won't be till tomorrow now!

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bootneck63]

Thats great Mark, thanks. I have more on this, my grandfather was Leonard McCarthy (son of John) he was in the KSLI during WW2 and after WW2 in the Essex Regt. John had 8 children in total with Julia and yes all lived in the St Pancras area.

I have a query about 5712 John McCarthy, I have accessed some of his military records, they start in 1914. Bizarrely he was promoted to Sgt from Private in 1914 but then appears as a LCpl in 1915, a Cpl in 1916 and a Sergeant in 1918. He was injured twice (1915 and 16) was captured in 1918 and received the MM around the same time maybe at his capture? The rapid promotion and demotion is a strange one.

[MBrockway]

Can you tell me where you have seen these pages from his service record?

[Bootneck63]

I got them from Forces-war-records.co.uk, have attached a couple.

J McCarthy 03.pdf J McCarthy 04.pdf

[MBrockway]

On 12/11/2020 at 08:49, Bootneck63 said:

 ... Bizarrely he was promoted to Sgt from Private in 1914 ...

 

 

Where are seeing this Bootneck?

 

The National Archive Ref of WO 372/12/190087 that FWR cites as the source for the image higher up, points to 5712 Sgt John McCarthy's campaign medal index card (MIC).

 

The National Archive catalogue entry for this is here and here's a screenshot of the main part ...

 

 

Row ① represents his 1914 Star and shows the rank he held when he entered a theatre of war (i.e. France & Flanders) on 22 Aug 1914, which was Private (i.e. Rifleman) as shown by ③.

 

Here's his corresponding entry on the 1914 Star Roll ...

This shows his rank on 22 Aug 1914 and that he was awarded the Clasp & Roses indicating he was in action before the cut-off date - i.e. he was an "Old Contemptible".  The medal was issued by post on 16 Jun 1919.

 

 

Row ② on the catalogue entry represents his British War and Victory medals and shows the rank he had attained at the Armistice on 11 Nov 1918, i.e. Sergeant as shown by ④

 

This does not mean he was promoted to Sergeant and then demoted back to Private/Rfn.

 

Is it from here that you have got the info on the Sergeant/Private issue you mention higher up?

 

Here's his corresponding British War & Victory Medal roll entry ...

Here we see McCarthy had reached Sergeant on 11 Nov 1918, or on becoming non-effective.  We also see his Victory Medal was returned by the Police on 20 Nov 1924 (the MIC has 19th) and re-issued on 01 Jan 1925.  One assumes the rest of his Mons Star trio and his MM were still safe.

 

When I posted the left hand half of this earlier, the full significance of his battalions didn't strike me.  The list shows the sequence of battalions he passed through during the war from embarkation to the Armistice.  Usually they're in chronological order.  Often a change in battalion points to a man being wounded, returning to Blighty and then, once fit again, being returned to a different battalion.  When the same battalion is listed twice consecutively, we usually interpret that as another spell home in Blighty wounded or sick, but then returning back to the same battalion.

 

What only struck me later was that 10/KRRC was broken up at the end of Feb 1918 when brigades were reduced from four to three battalions.  For 10/KRRC, nearly all the men were transferred to other KRRC battalions.  McCarthy however has no other battalion after 10/KRRC listed.  How could he have ended the war in a battalion that no longer existed?

 

My hunch was that he had been taken prisoner by the Germans before end Feb 1918 and, sure enough, on checking that, it turns out he was one of the large number of 10/KRRC who were surrounded and isolated in the front line during the German counter-attack at Cambrai on 30 Nov 1917.  The battalion held out until they exhausted all ammunition at which point they were obliged to surrender.  There are a number of topics covering this here on the Forum, including one with some enemy photos of their "bag" and at least one detailed topic covering the retreat to Welsh Ridge.  I'd normally post some links to these, but the changes to the Forum search tool have me stumped!

 

 

His German POW records (available at the ICRC) show he was in 'C' Company and that he was captured with a wound to his right leg.

 

20th (Light) Division at the time were holding the high ground above the St Quentin Canal where it forms a salient to the SW of Crèvecoeur-sur-l'Escaut, about 5 miles due S of Cambrai.  He was initially held at Le Quesnoy some 25 miles back in the German rear area, before being transported first to the POW camp at Dülmen, (~200 miles away, near Münster) where he appears on the Camp Roll taken on 29 Dec 1917 and then to Parchim in Mecklenburg, some 250 miles deeper into Germany.  He's on the Parchim camp roll taken on 18 Feb 1918.

 

His POW records list him as born in Hampstead (Dülmen roll) and in Clerkenwell (Parchim roll).  His next of kin is listed (on Dülmen roll) as his Wife (unnamed), at 19 Lamble Street, Gospel Oak, London, which we've already seen on 5712 McCarthy's MIC (higher up).

 

We know from the 1939 National Register that your great-grandfather John McCarthy was born on 25 Feb 1884.

 

I got quite excited when I spotted 5712 Sgt McCarthy's POW records give his birth date as 25 Feb 1883 and, allowing for a slip with the year, thought I had proved the link! 

 

KRRC Service Number 5712 would normally point to enlistment into one of the Regular KRRC battalions in late 1903. 

 

1/KRRC and 2/KRRC both landed on 13 Aug 1914, whereas 5712 McCarthy landed over a week later on 22 Aug 1914.  That could point to him being in a detail held back at the Depot to complete some task, or that he was in an early replenishment draft made up of recalled Reservists.

 

1/KRRC's war diary mentions the first reinforcements (99 ORs) catching up with the battalion in the field near Chailly-en-Brie on 04 Sep 1914.  Several officers joined earlier on 24 Aug 1914, but there is no mention of ORs being with them.

 

It would be unusual for a completely raw recruit to be sent out so quickly ... but not impossible.  It certainly suggests either 5712 McCarthy was still in the battalion or he had recent military training.

 

If he enlisted as a Regular into 1/KRRC in 1903, normal terms would be seven years with the Colours and five on the Reserve.  That would see him into the Reserve and returning to civvy street around 1910, yet your GGF, John McCarthy, is listed as a 'Packer' on their marriage register from 23 Aug 1908.  He may gone into the Reserve early, or possibly he had enlisted into the Militia in 1903.  Militia terms were six years, beginning with six months full time infantry training, then returning to civvy street, but with a commitment to attend 3-4 weeks training (usually a summer camp) annually until the six years were up and with similar commitments for call-up to a Regular Reservist.

 

The closest KRRC militia battalion was 7/KRRC, the 2nd Middlesex or Edmonton Royal Rifles, who in 1903 were based in Barnet.  When the militia was converted to the Special Reserve in 1908, they were renumbered 6/KRRC and HQ moved to Woolwich.  Close to Canning Town ... but the other side of the water!  In Sep 1913, the battalion HQ moved to the Rifle Depot at Winchester.  6/KRRC's service numbers *should* have a '6/' prefix though.

A further complexity is that 1/KRRC were in Malta 1902-1905, then Crete/Cyprus/Egypt 1905-1909, returning to Aldershot early in 1909.

 

Until I am reunited with my library, I'm not confident I can take this further.  I need to confirm from the 1919-1922 KRRC Chronicles whether Sgt John McCarthy so prominent in the 3/KRRC boxing reports is definitely 5712 Sgt McCarthy, as well as digging into the pre-War angles.

 

I also assume that the boxing medal has been handed down to you through the family, and not via purchase?

 

Do you or the family have his Mons Star trio and MM?

 

 

Mark

 

Edited 14 November , 2020 by MBrockway
Adding medal roll entries & much extra explanation

[Bootneck63]

I think the confusion is mine, mainly from the summary of the results from Forces-war-meadl.co.uk see attached.

[MBrockway]

5 hours ago, Bootneck63 said:

I think the confusion is mine, mainly from the summary of the results from Forces-war-meadl.co.uk see attached.

 

 

Bootneck - I've added a good bit of new comment in my post before yours.  Mark

[Bootneck63]

Thanks for the very comprehensive reply, I look forward to establishing if this is my Great Grandfather or not.

[Bootneck63]

14 hours ago, MBrockway said:

 

Bootneck - I've added a good bit of new comment in my post before yours.  Mark

Hi Mark, Ive been trying to search the ICRC website for WW1 POW's looking for John McCarthy and I get nothing, am I doing something wrong? The person search takes me to "Mayne" onwards and there are no McCarthys listed?

[MBrockway]

The ICRC search engine has "idiosyncracies" that take a while to learn!

 

Here you go ...

Dülmen Roll taken on 29 Dec 1917 .......  https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/559488/698/18186/

Parchim Roll taken on 18 Feb 1918 ......  https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/559488/698/20358/

 

Ignore the date stamps - these refer to when the Red Cross received them in Geneva.

[MBrockway]

Any update on whether you or your family hold John McCarthy's 14 Star trio and MM?

 

[Bootneck63]

Just now, MBrockway said:

Any update on whether you or your family hold John McCarthy's 14 Star trio and MM?

 

No we don't have his medals, the only link is the boxing medal from India. I have applied for the service records of McCarthy 5712 in the hope there is something there to link him to 3rd Bn in India in the 1920's.

 

[MBrockway]

I think my KRRC Chronicles 1920-22 list the Sergeants' Mess including service numbers, which would resolve things pronto!

 

However I only have scans of the boxing club reports from those with me.  Because of COVID, it's likely to be several weeks till I get back to my books and, anyway, I'm only 50% confident the WO & NCO rolls do give service numbers.

 

You'll definitely get more info more quickly from a direct descendant application direct to the MOD.  If 5712 is the 3/KRRC boxing chap, then he served into peacetime and there's a lot greater chance his records have survived intact.

 

Be aware at least FIVE other John McCarthys served as ORs in the KRRC in WW1.

 

Also that a KRRC veteran 5712 Sgt John CLARKE re-enlisted into the ASC in 1914.  He originally enlisted in 1890 so his SN is what we call '5712 (Old Series)'.  He was probably discharged, time expired, from the KRRC in 1911, so after 1903 there would have been two KRRC men with SN 5712!  I mention this as we sometimes see service records jumbled up.

 

Mark

 

 

[Bootneck63]

On 14/11/2020 at 15:06, MBrockway said:

 

Where are seeing this Bootneck?

 

The National Archive Ref of WO 372/12/190087 that FWR cites as the source for the image higher up, points to 5712 Sgt John McCarthy's campaign medal index card (MIC).

 

The National Archive catalogue entry for this is here and here's a screenshot of the main part ...

 

 

Row ① represents his 1914 Star and shows the rank he held when he entered a theatre of war (i.e. France & Flanders) on 22 Aug 1914, which was Private (i.e. Rifleman) as shown by ③.

 

Here's his corresponding entry on the 1914 Star Roll ...

This shows his rank on 22 Aug 1914 and that he was awarded the Clasp & Roses indicating he was in action before the cut-off date - i.e. he was an "Old Contemptible".  The medal was issued by post on 16 Jun 1919.

 

 

Row ② on the catalogue entry represents his British War and Victory medals and shows the rank he had attained at the Armistice on 11 Nov 1918, i.e. Sergeant as shown by ④

 

This does not mean he was promoted to Sergeant and then demoted back to Private/Rfn.

 

Is it from here that you have got the info on the Sergeant/Private issue you mention higher up?

 

Here's his corresponding British War & Victory Medal roll entry ...

Here we see McCarthy had reached Sergeant on 11 Nov 1918, or on becoming non-effective.  We also see his Victory Medal was returned by the Police on 20 Nov 1924 (the MIC has 19th) and re-issued on 01 Jan 1925.  One assumes the rest of his Mons Star trio and his MM were still safe.

 

When I posted the left hand half of this earlier, the full significance of his battalions didn't strike me.  The list shows the sequence of battalions he passed through during the war from embarkation to the Armistice.  Usually they're in chronological order.  Often a change in battalion points to a man being wounded, returning to Blighty and then, once fit again, being returned to a different battalion.  When the same battalion is listed twice consecutively, we usually interpret that as another spell home in Blighty wounded or sick, but then returning back to the same battalion.

 

What only struck me later was that 10/KRRC was broken up at the end of Feb 1918 when brigades were reduced from four to three battalions.  For 10/KRRC, nearly all the men were transferred to other KRRC battalions.  McCarthy however has no other battalion after 10/KRRC listed.  How could he have ended the war in a battalion that no longer existed?

 

My hunch was that he had been taken prisoner by the Germans before end Feb 1918 and, sure enough, on checking that, it turns out he was one of the large number of 10/KRRC who were surrounded and isolated in the front line during the German counter-attack at Cambrai on 30 Nov 1917.  The battalion held out until they exhausted all ammunition at which point they were obliged to surrender.  There are a number of topics covering this here on the Forum, including one with some enemy photos of their "bag" and at least one detailed topic covering the retreat to Welsh Ridge.  I'd normally post some links to these, but the changes to the Forum search tool have me stumped!

 

 

His German POW records (available at the ICRC) show he was in 'C' Company and that he was captured with a wound to his right leg.

 

20th (Light) Division at the time were holding the high ground above the St Quentin Canal where it forms a salient to the SW of Crèvecoeur-sur-l'Escaut, about 5 miles due S of Cambrai.  He was initially held at Le Quesnoy some 25 miles back in the German rear area, before being transported first to the POW camp at Dülmen, (~200 miles away, near Münster) where he appears on the Camp Roll taken on 29 Dec 1917 and then to Parchim in Mecklenburg, some 250 miles deeper into Germany.  He's on the Parchim camp roll taken on 18 Feb 1918.

 

His POW records list him as born in Hampstead (Dülmen roll) and in Clerkenwell (Parchim roll).  His next of kin is listed (on Dülmen roll) as his Wife (unnamed), at 19 Lamble Street, Gospel Oak, London, which we've already seen on 5712 McCarthy's MIC (higher up).

 

We know from the 1939 National Register that your great-grandfather John McCarthy was born on 25 Feb 1884.

 

I got quite excited when I spotted 5712 Sgt McCarthy's POW records give his birth date as 25 Feb 1883 and, allowing for a slip with the year, thought I had proved the link! 

 

KRRC Service Number 5712 would normally point to enlistment into one of the Regular KRRC battalions in late 1903. 

 

1/KRRC and 2/KRRC both landed on 13 Aug 1914, whereas 5712 McCarthy landed over a week later on 22 Aug 1914.  That could point to him being in a detail held back at the Depot to complete some task, or that he was in an early replenishment draft made up of recalled Reservists.

 

1/KRRC's war diary mentions the first reinforcements (99 ORs) catching up with the battalion in the field near Chailly-en-Brie on 04 Sep 1914.  Several officers joined earlier on 24 Aug 1914, but there is no mention of ORs being with them.

 

It would be unusual for a completely raw recruit to be sent out so quickly ... but not impossible.  It certainly suggests either 5712 McCarthy was still in the battalion or he had recent military training.

 

If he enlisted as a Regular into 1/KRRC in 1903, normal terms would be seven years with the Colours and five on the Reserve.  That would see him into the Reserve and returning to civvy street around 1910, yet your GGF, John McCarthy, is listed as a 'Packer' on their marriage register from 23 Aug 1908.  He may gone into the Reserve early, or possibly he had enlisted into the Militia in 1903.  Militia terms were six years, beginning with six months full time infantry training, then returning to civvy street, but with a commitment to attend 3-4 weeks training (usually a summer camp) annually until the six years were up and with similar commitments for call-up to a Regular Reservist.

 

The closest KRRC militia battalion was 7/KRRC, the 2nd Middlesex or Edmonton Royal Rifles, who in 1903 were based in Barnet.  When the militia was converted to the Special Reserve in 1908, they were renumbered 6/KRRC and HQ moved to Woolwich.  Close to Canning Town ... but the other side of the water!  In Sep 1913, the battalion HQ moved to the Rifle Depot at Winchester.  6/KRRC's service numbers *should* have a '6/' prefix though.

A further complexity is that 1/KRRC were in Malta 1902-1905, then Crete/Cyprus/Egypt 1905-1909, returning to Aldershot early in 1909.

 

Until I am reunited with my library, I'm not confident I can take this further.  I need to confirm from the 1919-1922 KRRC Chronicles whether Sgt John McCarthy so prominent in the 3/KRRC boxing reports is definitely 5712 Sgt McCarthy, as well as digging into the pre-War angles.

 

I also assume that the boxing medal has been handed down to you through the family, and not via purchase?

 

Do you or the family have his Mons Star trio and MM?

 

 

Mark

 

Hi Mark, have you been reunited with your library yet? I'm still trying to work out 5712 Sgt McCarthy was my great grandfather.

[MBrockway]

Sgt McCarthy is mentioned in all 3/KRRC Boxing sections of the KRRC Chronicles 1920-1922.  Never with his Service Number, nor the MM post-nominal though.

 

3/KRRC was disbanded at Mhow, India, in late 1922.  In October, those eligible to continue serving were transferred to 1/KRRC, then on their way out from England, and moved to Quetta, India, to await 1/KRRC's arrival.  The remainder, some 380 ORs, left for the UK and discharge.

The 1922 Chronicle 3/KRRC boxing report has this ...

  " ... We are also losing our invaluable trainer, Sergt. McCarthy, to whose wonderful enthusiasm is due the greater part of our success during the last three years.|| Fortunately we still have some promising novices to hand over to the 1st Battalion, and we have no doubt that they will be able to keep up the reputation of the Regiment."

 

This suggests McCarthy was not among those who stayed in India and transferred to 1/KRRC.

 

There's no mention of McCarthy in any of the boxing reports in the 1923 KRRC Chronicle.

A Colour-Sergeant J. McCarthy is listed as attending the 1923 KRRC Veterans' Association Annual Dinner held on 23 Jun 1923 at Davies Street, suggesting he had been discharged at this point and left after a promotion.

 

The KRRC Chronicle nominal rolls only go down as far as the WOIs and IIs.  Colour/staff sergeants, sergeants and below are not listed.

 

In summary delving into the KRRC Chronicles leaves boxing Sgt McCarthy and 5712 Sgt McCarthy, MM, being the same man as 'not proven'.  Sorry

 

 

How did you get on with making a next of kin request to the MOD as I suggested higher up?

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MBrockway]

On 12/09/2018 at 13:24, Drew-1918 said:

Looking at the photos again, I just realised I have done Rfn Buckle a disservice. I only glanced at what he wrote on the back and I misread his handwriting. He actually wrote, "Won by our Battn. team". I read his cursive "our" as 'won by me..."

 

Many apologies. 

 

Chris

 

While searching the boxing reports 1920-1923 for Sgt McCarthy, I also kept an eye out for Rfn Buckle.  No mention whatsoever in any of the 3/KRRC boxing teams.

 

Mark

[MBrockway]

On 10/11/2020 at 02:53, MBrockway said:

5712 McCarthy's MM was gazetted on 23 Feb 1918.  He was serving in 10/KRRC at the time.

 

 

 

Source: LG Issue #30540, 22 Feb 1918, p.2425 here

 

You may have to wait till I'm back with my library for me to unearth the action with 10/KRRC for which he was awarded MM.  Cambrai is an obvious possibility.

 

5712 Sgt McCarthy has address 19 Lamble Street, Gospel Oak, NW5, on his campaign medal index card.  Does that tie up with any known family locations?

 

Mark

 

 

Williamson's Great War Medal Collectors Companion has LG Issue #30540, 22 Feb 1918, covering awards October to December 1917 for 3rd Ypres and Cambrai, the latter covering both the main Battle of Cambrai and the 30 November German counter-attack.

 

I could find no mention of McCarthy in the 10/KRRC war diaries for Oct 1917 through to Feb 1918 (when the bn was disbanded).

 

My gut feel is the MM was awarded for acts of bravery on 30 Nov 1917 when so many of the battalion were cut off and taken prisoner.

 

 

Mark

 

[Bootneck63]

Many thanks, the mystery continues. Having applied over 6 months ago for his service record I have not received a response and the cheque has not been cashed so who knows?

[Drew-1918]

On 31/05/2021 at 04:43, MBrockway said:

 

While searching the boxing reports 1920-1923 for Sgt McCarthy, I also kept an eye out for Rfn Buckle.  No mention whatsoever in any of the 3/KRRC boxing teams.

 

Mark

Many thanks, Mark. Seems like Rfn. Buckle might have been trying to impress the aforementioned young lady. You never know though, eh! 

Cheers,

 

Chris

[MBrockway]

This morning by chance I came across this interesting snippet in the 1939 KRRC Chronicle ...

Quote

A SET OF "REGIMENTAL CHRONICLES" FOR SALE

Sergt. McCarthy, of 226 Roundway, Great North Road, London, N.1, has a complete set of Chronicles from 1901 to 1918 for sale.  He states that they are all cloth bound and in perfect condition.  He is willing to accept any reasonable price, and will exchange any of the books for 1921, 1922 and 1923 with his record as a Boxing Instructor of the late 3rd Battalion.

 

[KRRC Chronicle, 1939 , p.176]

 

This is clearly our chap and useful confirmation for his dates.  Sadly any reference to a Military Medal is absent, but then one would probably not expect it in this context anyway.

 

Cheers,

Mark

 

[Bootneck63]

14 minutes ago, MBrockway said:

This morning by chance I came across this interesting snippet in the 1939 KRRC Chronicle ...

[KRRC Chronicle, 1939 , p.176]

 

This is clearly our chap and useful confirmation for his dates.  Sadly any reference to a Military Medal is absent, but then one would probably not expect it in this context anyway.

 

Cheers,

Mark

 

Thanks Mark, interesting snippet, Ive not been able to confirm the MM yet, but still looking.

[Bootneck63]

25 minutes ago, MBrockway said:

This morning by chance I came across this interesting snippet in the 1939 KRRC Chronicle ...

[KRRC Chronicle, 1939 , p.176]

 

This is clearly our chap and useful confirmation for his dates.  Sadly any reference to a Military Medal is absent, but then one would probably not expect it in this context anyway.

 

Cheers,

Mark

 

On the Record Card for Sergeant McCarthy 5712, his release from POW camp in Germany, it lists his NOK address as Hampstead which is the same area as the address in the chronicles.

[MBrockway]

Higher up, I posted re John and Julia McCARTHY living at 5 Gedeney Road, Tottenham, London, N17 7DY in the 1939 National Register.

..  which is here

The next street is The Roundway, which parallels it to the north.

 

This is a section of the A10, the Great Cambridge Road aka the Old North Road.  The Roundway was originally known as just Roundway - see here

The modern address of 226 The Roundway, London, N17 7DE is located on the S side of the The Roundway roughly halfway between its junctions with Henningham Road and Awlfield Avenue.

 

The Great North Road is followed by the modern A1 & A1000, with a section still so named in the Highgate/Finchley area.  This is in the N6 postal district.  I could find no place called Roundway though, and the modern street numbers in this section fall well short of #226.  The line of the Great North Road does not go as far west as Hampstead.

 

The address on McCarthy's MIC and his POW NoK record - 19 Lamble Street, Gospel Oak, London, NW5 4AS - is approx 2 miles S of Highgate and approx 6 miles SW of Tottenham.

 

I reckon the address in Tottenham is the more likely.

HTH

Mark