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Sturmey

Military Cross - but no records

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Sturmey

I'm guessing this will be child's play for a medal buff, but it is foxing me.

A neighbour has the three war medals and a Military Cross for A.L.E.F. Coleman, a lieutenant then a captain with the RAMC.

He has a blue book detailing his service and much to my neighbours delight, he's actually named in several war diaries as he makes his way through the war.

So far so good.

The problem is his Military Cross. I have access to his medal card, but only through the Naval and Military Archive website. The three usual medals are mentioned, but no mention of the MC.

Furthermore, searching the London Gazette, even with some deliberate mis-spellings and a few shuffles of his initials, yields nothing.

There must be something obvious I'm not doing beyond these normal simple techniques - can someone help me please?

The neighbour wants the citation if at all possible, obviously.

Your help much appreciated!

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clk

Hi Sturmey,

 

image.png.503fec8b96fae0880e0447f473d9c893.png

Image source: The National Archives - file WO 389/7

 

Regards

Chris

 

Edit:

image.png.fc0756070ebdc155dd83daf01cb80138.png

Image source: The National Archives - file WO 389/11

Edited by clk

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David_Underdown

And as gazetted (without location and date annotations) https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31119/supplement/612 - Honours and Awards are typically gazetted using full forenames rather than just initials

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Sturmey

Well that's just fantastic. Many thanks David

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Jacob Bower

A good friend of mine has a grandfather named John Edward Grundy. He served in ww1 for the royal garrison artillery. 40th battery.Promoted throughout the war i think he was mainly lieutenant or 2nd lieutenant during the war, maybe acting captain? I've found mention of his name a couple of times. One was from the trench art shell we had that said sed ul bahr 1919 on the side. Which turned out to be a village near Gallipoli. Grundy won the military cross but we dont know what for? Ive looked on the Gazette but cannot find him. The citation details would be amazing if anyone could help it would be appreciated 

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IPT

Welcome, Jacob,

 

He originally went to France on 27/2/1916 as 16959 Sgt John Grundy, and was commissioned 10/11/1916. He did reach the rank of Acting Captain.

 

Here's his MC citation;

 

2nd Lt. John E. Grundy, R.G.A. For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. He closely followed the infantry attack, and established early communication with his battery, which he kept up for two days under heavy fire, at the same time sending back valuable information.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30188/supplement/7230/data.pdf

 

He received the MBE in June 1921, presumably for his work in Ireland, where he was attached to the North Staffordshire Regiment -  https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32361/supplement/4887/data.pdf

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Jacob Bower

Thankyou so much. We knew he had won the mbe but had no idea why. How would i go about finding out about where he served i.e which battles or actions etc?

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Jacob Bower

And how did u know about his work in Ireland. Any details? Thanks again

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clk

Hi Jacob,

 

Based on his MC index card

image.png.7406dc655148b90cb6f5c76154ef414b.png

Image source: The National Archives - file WO 389/14

 

His MC citation should appear in this free download from the National Archives. I might be wrong, but when I looked at it they appear to have missed/not scanning his record. That's a shame as it might well have been hand annotated with the date of his MC action which you could cross reference to the unit war diary.

 

From the long number indices held by the National Archives (file WO 338/8/17)  I wonder if the first man in this image is your man...

image.png.c0ee4252f679efdcd0de8e6eedbb8967.png

 

The 'P' number indicates a post war officer (probably heavily weeded) file that should still be held by the MoD - advice on how to get a copy here. Help desk number here.

 

If you had his service file you should be able to follow his likely war experience through the relevant war diaries.

 

Regards

Chris

 

Edited by clk

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IPT

His medal card shows his addresses as;

 

1) Braefoot, Aberdour, Fife

2) att. 1st North Staffs, Ireland

E Coastal Battery, RGA, Catterick

 

Forum member Corisande has a website devoted to this period in Irish history, and there is an interesting document mentioning John Grundy at an investiture in Dublin - https://www.cairogang.com/awards-medals/1921-awards.html   He would know best what the implication of receiving this award would be, in terms of what he was doing there.

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David_Underdown
9 hours ago, clk said:

 

His MC citation should appear in this free download from the National Archives. I might be wrong, but when I looked at it they appear to have missed/not scanning his record. That's a shame as it might well have been hand annotated with the date of his MC action which you could cross reference to the unit war diary.

It's there, page  44 of the PDF (numbered 81 in top left), 9 April 1917, Vimy Ridge.  The gazette date is 18 July, rather than 8 July as I originally read it.

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clk

Thanks David.

 

Jacob,

48 minutes ago, David_Underdown said:

9 April 1917, Vimy Ridge.

 

 it also notes whilst serving with 148 Siege Battery RGA at that time. Their war diary is here

 

Regards

Chris

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Shay Kinsella

Hi Jacob,

I'm currently researching Lt. John Edward Grundy and his service with the North Staffordshore regiment during the Irish War of Independence during 1920-21.  Grundy was extremely active in Co. Carlow in the southeast of the country. 

Is there any hope of getting a photograph of the man from your friend to feature in an upcoming book on the subject?

Thanks in advance,

 

Dr. Shay Kinsella

 

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DavidOwen
11 hours ago, Shay Kinsella said:

Hi Jacob,

I'm currently researching Lt. John Edward Grundy and his service with the North Staffordshore regiment during the Irish War of Independence during 1920-21.  Grundy was extremely active in Co. Carlow in the southeast of the country. 

Is there any hope of getting a photograph of the man from your friend to feature in an upcoming book on the subject?

Thanks in advance,

 

Dr. Shay Kinsella

 

Shay

 

Welcome to the forum.

Jacob hasn't logged in since September last year but if you reply to this you will have the 2 posts necessary to access the messaging system. Click on his profile name and select message. Jacob will then be notified of your message via an email to his registered address.

Good luck with the book.

 

Regards

David

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M_Behan
On 29/08/2018 at 22:18, Jacob Bower said:

A good friend of mine has a grandfather named John Edward Grundy. He served in ww1 for the royal garrison artillery. 40th battery.Promoted throughout the war i think he was mainly lieutenant or 2nd lieutenant during the war, maybe acting captain? I've found mention of his name a couple of times. One was from the trench art shell we had that said sed ul bahr 1919 on the side. Which turned out to be a village near Gallipoli. Grundy won the military cross but we dont know what for? Ive looked on the Gazette but cannot find him. The citation details would be amazing if anyone could help it would be appreciated 

 

 

Hi Jacob,

I know you posted this question nearly a year ago but I just started going through my grandfather's papers - Comdt Michael Behan. He fought with the old IRA between 1919-1921 in the Co Carlow area. I came across a reference to Lt Grundy as he saved my grandfather from summary execution (see attached below).

 

If you have any further info of John E. Grundy I'd appreciate your help - I wouldn't be here today without him! It would be very useful to know if it's the same officer.  I'll be adding these papers and anything else I can piece together into a new blog over the coming months: www.creggane.com

 

 

20190823_161907.jpg

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Michelle Young

Welcome to the forum. I have sent a message to Jacob, hopefully he will reply to your post. He last logged in earlier this month. 

Michelle 

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M_Behan
On 23/08/2019 at 17:55, Michelle Young said:

Welcome to the forum. I have sent a message to Jacob, hopefully he will reply to your post. He last logged in earlier this month. 

Michelle 

Thanks Michelle. Much appreciated.

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Jacob Bower

Hello Michelle. I'm sat with Grundys granddaughter right now. We are both realy happy to find out more about his exploits in Ireland.  Shay Kinsella, someone i got in touch with on the forum has been looking into Grundy in relation to writing a book on the subject . Perhaps i could put him in touch with M. Behan. I'd like to get in touch with him myself. It's deeply satisfying to think Grundy had the morals to save the life of the obvious enemy.

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M_Behan
9 hours ago, Jacob Bower said:

Hello Michelle. I'm sat with Grundys granddaughter right now. We are both realy happy to find out more about his exploits in Ireland.  Shay Kinsella, someone i got in touch with on the forum has been looking into Grundy in relation to writing a book on the subject . Perhaps i could put him in touch with M. Behan. I'd like to get in touch with him myself. It's deeply satisfying to think Grundy had the morals to save the life of the obvious enemy.

Thank you Jacob,

I got an email from Shay last night and I'm about respond to him with more information. It seems that Lt Grundy was one of the regular officers leading a group of auxiliaries (Black & Tans in the vernacular) when they captured the entire Carlow Brigade Flying Column, a group of about 12 men. One of the IRA combatants was killed in the action and two civilians were also casualties. I have copies of my grandfathers letters and other material from the Irish National Library and that was when I spotted Lt Grundy's name. I then read about the infamous Ballymurphy Ambush and saw that Dr Kinsella had put out a request from anyone with more information. 

It's all happened quite fast; I had the letters in storage for nearly ten years and only started looking at them last week as my eldest is now showing interest in history. I had thought it would be a good project for her especially as we are approaching the centenary commemorations of these events.

 

I'll be uploading all the material to a google drive account and to a web site as soon as possible. I'm not sure if there are any more references to Lt Grundy as most of the material are handwritten letters whilst my grandfather was awaiting trial and in internment during the subsequent Civil War.

 Hopefully I will be back in touch again soon with more news. 

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