1/6th Devons in Iraq

[Chris 52.]

Hi,

 

I have been researching into the 1/6h Devons from when they arrived in Iraq up until May 1916. Can anybody help me as regards the following.

 

My Grandfather was Private Frederick Joseph ELLIOTT, 3832. I know that his death is recorded as 10th April 1916. The Devonshire Regiment by C.T. Atkinson simply states that he died.

I have a copy of the letter sent to my grandmother that states that he was accidentally killed. This was also confirmed on the Death Certificate.The accident occurred whilst the Battalion was at Camp Orah.

 

I cannot get access to the C.L. Flick's History of the Devons. (The holding library refuses to send it to my local library) Can anybody provided me with any more information regarding my Grandfather?

 

Any additional information would be greatly appreciated .

[Steven Broomfield]

You could try contacting the Kepp at Dorchester, which is the regimental museum of the Devons & Dorsets Link here so presumably carries whatever records exist.

[charlie962]

Whatever the accident, the body was not found or recovered. He is thus commemorated on Basra Memorial.

 

But the camp at Orah was not over-run by the Turks at that time. So why was his body not recovered ? Perhaps he fell into the river and was lost ?

 

Charlie

[charlie962]

Incidentally have you spotted that his brother's service record has survived - William John Elliott 28382 Royal Engineers. It comes up because he gives their father Joseph John and his William's brother Frederick Joseph as next of kin.

 

Charlie

[Chris 52.]

Thanks for the responses. Yes I have the record for his brother - William John ELLIOTT. He was only in the R.E. for a couple of months and was discharged for not being likely to be an efficient soldier. Another brother served in the Royal Marines until 1929.

I wrote to the Devon Regiment headquarters, when it was at Exeter and they could provide nothing, apart from the Commonwealth War Grave imformation, which I already knew. Hopefully somebody might have a little more imformation.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[charlie962]

18 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Perhaps he fell into the river and was lost

I hope you don't think I was being flippant. River transport was the main transport system in Mesopotamia and there are numerous tales of men falling overboard and being lost, particularly if in a weakened state as many of the Relief Force were due to previous battles and sickness.

 

Do try the Keep as suggested above. I'm sure I came across an article written by them in a journal 2 or three years ago, specifically on 1/6th Devons. Google of course gives lots of hits just putting in "1/6th Devons" and will give you very good background.

 

Did local papers not report his death ?

 

For specific mentions of Elliott you just have to keep searching widely and hope. Do please keep us posted.

 

Charlie

[Chris 52.]

Hi All,

 

I have checked the Local Papers and there is nothing. Not even a family annoucement. I have been searching on and off for many years and now that I have retired I have the time.

The 6th Devons were mainly North Devon men and based in Barnstaple yet Frederick lived in Plymouth - logically he would have enlisted in the 5th.which was their centre.

 

I have not ruled out that he could have fallen in the riiver but "accidently killed" seems to suggest what the family thought at the time and that he was shot by accident.

 

I remember hearing many years ago that he was suffering from dysentry, like many others at the time of his death - however I could never confirm this..

 

I will certainly contact "The Keep" and see what they have to say.

 

Many thanks

 

Chris

[MaureenE]

Would it be possible that this was  a suicide which was "hushed up", or alternatively a shooting by another soldier which was similarly "hushed up".

 

On 27/08/2018 at 07:22, charlie962 said:

Whatever the accident, the body was not found or recovered. He is thus commemorated on Basra Memorial.

 

But the camp at Orah was not over-run by the Turks at that time. So why was his body not recovered ? Perhaps he fell into the river and was lost ?

 

Charlie

 I don't think what Charlie has said is necessarily so.  The Basra Memorial includes names "whose graves are not known". At least for Baghdad Cemetery, possibly also for Basra, it is my understanding that this includes individual graves  which could not be identified when graves when relocated in the 1920s. So he could well have been buried at the time of his death, but by the time of the relocations, identification of his grave was lost.

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

[Chris 52.]

Hi All,

 

The family always considered that he was shot by another soldier - if his death was by suidcide his death certificate would surley indicate as such, as I have seen certificates that give suicide as the cause..

In a letter from the Devon Regitment I received in the 1980's  it stated that "after the war the War Graves Commission were unable to locate his grave" Surely this would suggest that a burial had taken place? All the 1/6th Devons who were killed on 8th March 1916 after the Battle of  Dujailah were probably buried together, making identifcation extremely unlikely.Their names appear on the Basra Memorial on Panel 11 along with F.J. ELLIOTT 3832.

 

Regards

 

Chris..

[charlie962]

2 hours ago, Chris 52. said:

All the 1/6th Devons who were killed on 8th March 1916 after the Battle of  Dujailah were probably buried together,

After that battle there was a withdrawal and certainly a lot of bodies will have been dealt with by the Turkish or not been found by either side. I still think it unusual that an accidental death at an established camp that was never over-run should lead to 'unknown grave' unless it was in the nature of the accident. Of course one has to put this in the context of the time with the disaster of the surrender of the Kut Garrison  etc.

 

Charlie

[ddycher]

Chris

 

I can't help shed any light on the nature of his death. His War/ Victory Medal Roll entry shows him KIA on the 10th April 1916 which I believe is an error though as the 6th Devons were not in action on this date.

 

I was intrigued by his enlistment in Plymouth which, as a territorial, should have put him in the 5th Devons like you state above. Having looked at this draft in more detail I can give you a possible glimpse into how he ended up in the 1/6th Devons. Originally thought he was part of an earlier draft from the 1/5th Devons to 1/6th Devons and that I had missed him. There was a draft from the 5th to the 6th in Lahore, India in December 1915 before the 6th Devons embarked for Mesopotami.

 

I had thought that these men were not renumbered. But I do not believe so.

 

The 1/6th Devons were re-enforced on arriving in Mesopotamia.This draft was put together by the 3/1st Wessex Division at Boscombe, Bournemouth in January 1916. With the advent of conscription that month a significant number of men were posted from the 3rd Devons to the Reserve TF Battalions at Boscombe bringing up to strength these third line TF units. Although these consisted mostly of wounded / sick returnee's from 1st, 2nd and 8th Devons it is also known to have included 3rd Devon men who had been recruited at Plymouth and Exeter. As such I would say he previously served either with the Regulars or in one of the Service Bn.  It is very difficult to trace his original number / Bn. as I can't find a 1914 or 1914/15 Star for him indicating he did not go over seas with his previous battalion. So probably a 3rd Devon prior to his posting to the 3/6th Devons. His draft to the 3/6th Devons subsequently ended up predominantly in the 1/6th in Mesop or 2/6th Devons in India. His draft for Mesopotamia embarked at Devonport for Mesopotamia on 22nd January and arrived at Basra on 23rd February. It was consolidated in Basra ultimately part of a much larger draft of 8 officers and 300 men who joined the 1/6th Devons in the field on 5th March just before the attacks on Es Sinn on the 8th where the battalion lost over 240 men.

 

It would seem that your grandfather survived this only to die of unknown causes a few weeks later. Sickness was prevalent in the 1/6th Devons at that time and there are a lot of deaths due to sickness in the new drafts arriving from the UK.

 

Will let you know if I find anything else.

 

Regards

Dave

 

 

[Guest]

Hi Chris-  good to see some work being done on a Plymouth boy. CWGC mentions Notte Street.

 

  .  There may well be a mention of any incident in brigade or divisional diary also- but let's check  the 38 Indian Brigade Diary first of all.  SE also has Amara as the place of death, whcih shades the odds against it being sickness just a little- An unknown grave on the Basrah Memorial is often an illness death, as the main base hospital was there.

 

  There is also a recent thread (started by Your Humble)  on a printed series from GHQ India entitled "Notes from War Diaries" .  It is possible (just) that there may be something in this series at battalion level for 1/6 Devonshire rather than  just the surviving brigade diary.

 

(An apology here-referred to a death date in July 1916 from SE-this was another Elliott on the same page in SE. Moral of story-don't knock off for a cup of tea in the middle of doing something)

 

36 Indian Infantry Brigade: 1/6 Battalion Devonshire Regiment

War Office: First World War and Army of Occupation War Diaries. PART VI: MESOPOTAMIA, IRAQ AND NORTH PERSIA. 14 INDIAN DIVISION. 36 Indian Infantry Brigade. 36 Indian Infantry Brigade: 1/6 Battalion Devonshire Regiment.

Held by:	The National Archives, Kew - War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies
Date:	01 December 1915 - 31 December 1916
Reference:	WO 95/5177/5
Subjects:	Armed Forces (General Administration) | Army | Conflict | Diaries | Middle East | Operations, battles and campaigns

 

 

2) The Flick book on 1/6 Devons is uncommon-but COPAC is misleading in suggesting that IWM is the only available copy.  The West Country Studies Library records a further 4 copies of the book.  Although it is unlikely they can be borrowed, then accessing a copy in God's Own Country may be a little easier than fretting about IWM (if that was the one that could not be borrowed)

 

Repository	Library	Shelf
Devon	West Country Studies	s356.11/DEV/FLI
Devon	West Country Studies	s356.11/DEV/FLI
Devon	North Devon Record Office	356.11/B/FLI
Devon	North Devon Athenaeum	D355/FLI

Illustration Reference

MATCH FLIREC1920

Location

2013 BAR 1

Publication Details

Date

1920

Place

Barnstaple

Publisher

A. E. Barnes

Embellishment

Name lists

Format

112p

Dimensions

22cm

Name

Devonshire Regiment

Aspects

Campaigns. World War 1

Counties

Devon

Subjects

Regiments

Dates

1914-1918

Edited 29 June , 2019 by Guest

[ddycher]

No immediate help from my side I'm afraid.

 

The diary gives no details for 10th April outside the fact that they remained in camp at Orah Camp. July is equally thin. They were in the Sinn defences primarily involved in their own protection duties. No incidents are recorded.

 

I will read through it again more carefully but nothing immediately jumps out.

 

Regards

Dave

[Chris 52.]

Hi there to those who have recently replied. Sorry for the delay but have been involved in other research and holiday. Yes, it is odd that Frederick enlisted in 6th Devons when he should be in the 5th.

The official letter sent to my grandmother quite clearly stated that he had been accidentally killed on the 10th. I later purchased a death certificate and that said exactly the same, with no further details.( The family seemed to think that he was accidentally shot and was suffering from dysentery at the time of his death ) I, too, have read the relevant War Diary which sheds no light on the incident. If he was buried locally it is odd that his grave could not be located later

 

As regards the book by C.L. Flick I tried borrowing it from the Devon library service - they refused! I also tried getting it through the University, were I was working at the time,again it was not lent out.

 

Frederick's brother, William John joined R.E. but was discharged as not being likely to make an efficient soldier. His youngest brother Edward Patrick Riordan joined the Royal Marines and served as a bugler on the Western Front and awarded the first ever King's Badge in Plymouth and his name is recorded in Durnford Street Barracks.

 

Thanks again for all the suggestions etc.

 

Chris

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Chris 52. said:

As regards the book by C.L. Flick I tried borrowing it from the Devon library service - they refused! I also tried getting it through the University, were I was working at the time,again it was not lent out.

 

    Digital camera and Thermos flask!!

[Chris 52.]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I might consider a trip to Barnstaple and view the book. The mystery of the death of Frederick will probably remain. Incidently his brother William emigrated to the U.S.A in 1920 along with the 4 sisters hence I have more American Relatives than English. His brother Edward remained in the Marines until his death in 1929.

 

Chris

[Guest]

Hi Chris- Not trying to mock.  As a retired bookseller and Devonian, I do not have the book-  One has to knuckle down and visit.  Did you ask in your local library through Inter-Library Loans or is that the refusal route that you have already been along ?

[Chris 52.]

Hi,

I did ask through the inter Library Loans and was even willing to read it in the main library in Plymouth. Being a non driver it is not very easy to get to Barnstaple from Plymouth so will explore going to Exeter to view the book. It might give a little more detail on my Grandfather - or nothing at all.

i recently did a research project on the War Dead of the University of St Mark & St John and found that they had missed over a dozen off their Memorials and it resulted in another plaque being added - at least I managed to achieve something to commemorate the centenary of 11.11.18,

Will continue to research 1/6th Devon deaths in Iraq and come up with something to do with the information.

[charlie962]

Chris, I note you are still pursuing the 1/5th and 1/6th puzzle on another thread.

Nothing new really on his accidental death but a new record available is the Pension Card  (WesternFrontAssociation sub will give you access plus other goodies here).

 

The Pension Card notes, inter alia, the following: (explanations of forms from the WFA site)

Date and cause of death:  10/4/16 accidentally killed whilst on active service.

Form 104-88 recieved: 29/4/16 (as I understand it this is "Death notification of a married man sent from the Territorial Force Record Office to the War Office".)

Form 104/76 received: D 4/5/16 (as I understand it this is "declaration made by the Widow of a Soldier in support of claim to pension for herself and children" )

 

You have a letter of notification of his accidental death. I don't know the date.

 

I have posted all this just to make the point that notification was very prompt and unambiguous that he was killed rather than disappeared or died. There wasn't anything else that I noted on the card that was helpful as to unit( just given as 'Devon') or cause of death.

 

Charlie

 

 

 

Edited 6 November , 2019 by charlie962