Guest spadaman Posted 11 January , 2005 Share Posted 11 January , 2005 I am trying to find out where this unit was on 29th April 1917 - the date of the death of L/Cpl Walter Underhill. The war diary states they were in trenches "east of Wancourt". I would like to know (if possible ) just where - anyone have any knowledge of this area ? Many thanks Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Holmes Posted 12 January , 2005 Share Posted 12 January , 2005 Bill, on the 29th April 1917 the 14th (Light) Division was on the right of the 56th (1st/1st London) Division preparing for the 3rd Battle of the Scarpe. The 14th Division was to attack Cherisy on the 3rd May to the southwest of Arras to the south of the Arras-Cambrai road. Your battalion must have been around that area on the 29th. Hope this helps you. Regards John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irvmort Posted 12 January , 2005 Share Posted 12 January , 2005 The following quote is from the "KRRC Chronicle" for 1917 - page 90 in the section devoted to the 7th KRRC: "Training now continued, and on April 23rd we moved to billets at Berles and the following day to camp at Ficheux. All the villages east of the old German line were netirely destroyed, and afforded no cover of any sort. On the 25th we moved to Mercatel, where we found accommodation in partially constructed dug-outs, and the next day the Division took over the line form the 50th Division, our Brigade being in support in dug-outs and shelters near Neuville Vitasse, and the last three days of April we spent in the trenches east of Wancourt. Being relieved by the 8th Battalion on the night of May 1st-2nd, we moved back to Nepal Trench . . . " Hope this helps. Irv Mortenson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spadaman Posted 12 January , 2005 Share Posted 12 January , 2005 Guys Many thanks for this info - I guess all I need now is a trench map of the area showing who was where and when. Irv, I was interested in your footnote "Collector and researcher" to KRRC. Do you know what the letters that prefix a soldiers service number mean? My wifes Uncle was A214 and I have seen many more KRRC with other letters (and some with no letter). Also I was interested in the reference to the KRRC Chronical - could you tell me a bit more about it ? Where did you get hold of it? I would like to trace this guys movements from the time he entered France in 1915. I know that the 7th were at Delville Wood in August but that is about it. Thanks once again Regards Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irvmort Posted 14 January , 2005 Share Posted 14 January , 2005 Bill: The prefixes for the KRRC and Rifle Brigade and their approximate number ranges are detailed in the attached document. You should find it of some use. The Chronicles for the KRRC were published yearly from 1901, and continue to be published annually - now known as the Royal Greenjackets Chronicle. I have the complete run from 1901 to 1995 or so. During the Great War, there were individual Battalion reports/records published. Some highly detailed - some rather sparse - depending on the interest/time available to whoever was charged with submitting the reports. Irv Mortenson KRRC_RBNumbering.rtf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 14 January , 2005 Share Posted 14 January , 2005 I guess all I need now is a trench map of the area showing who was where and when. Bill Here is a trench map showing Mercatel and Neuville Vitasse. I have rotated it so that it does not distort the page, so apologies if you get a crick in the neck when looking at it. It should be possible to download into MS Paint and then rotate if you want to. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spadaman Posted 17 January , 2005 Share Posted 17 January , 2005 Guys This is fantastic and I never expected such a response so quick - many thanks all of you. I have a couple of problems - Irv I cannot open your attachment - would it be possible for you to to send to my email address (motoguzzibill@aol.com) ? Also I am not sure of what format it is can you help? Robert - the Trench map is great but have you got a copy of the area just to the east of this ? I need to see east of Wancourt and down to Cherisy . I am planning a trip over there later this year (job situation permitting ) and I want to go to that area. Many thanks once again. Regards Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonby Posted 18 January , 2005 Share Posted 18 January , 2005 Bill, Several years ago I researched a soldier who served with the 7/KRRC in WW1. He enlisted in 1914, served for two years before being wounded at Delville Wood in September 1916. He received a 'blighty' wound, but rejoined the Battalion in April 1917. He was awarded the MM for his bravery at Ypres in the Autumn of 1917, before being wounded again in the German's Spring Offensive in March 1918. At the time I read the Battalion war diaries at great length and have attached a very much abridged version which I hope will give you an insight into movements and battles of the Battalion during the war. Best wishes, Simon Bendry 7_KRRC_War_Diary.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spadaman Posted 18 January , 2005 Share Posted 18 January , 2005 Simon Fantastic. Many thanks for this - it is very, very interesting and useful. Where can you get hold of copies of the war diaries - even to read for research purposes? How did you find out which Company your man was in? The bit about the battle of Arras (1917) is very sparse but I have found out about their involvement at Wancourt on 11th April. All 12 officers and 174 OR's killed that day. I have visited that area and there are many of the 7th buried at Hibers Trench cemetary just outside of Wancourt. There is a section of Johnathon Nichols book "Cheerful Sacrifice" which describes this action on some detail. If you are interested I could copy the bits and send to you (assuming that I would not be infringing copyright laws) . Regards Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonby Posted 19 January , 2005 Share Posted 19 January , 2005 Bill, The War diaries for 7/kRRC are at the National Archives, Kew, ref. WO95/1896. In this file, at the front is a nominal roll of all those, by Company, with the Battalion on its arrival in France in May 1915. It was here that I found the details of Joseph Westwood, and his name listed under that of 'D' Coy. If Underhill was with the Battalion then (and his date of entry in Theatre on his MIC should tell you this) you should be able to find him listed. I apologies that only a single sentence covered the Battle of Arras. Westwood did not rejoin the Battalion until May 5th, following his wounding on the Somme the previous summer, and therefore I didnt read around their involvement in this battle, or record it. I have though just found in my files a copy of the War Chronicle, covering the 7th for 1917 and 1918. I see that Irv quoted from this in an earlier message. With regard to the Battle of Wancourt, the Battalion was involved from the 8th to the 12th April, when they were relieved by the 59th Division. The battlaion was very much involved and suffered fairly heavy casualties. I must though correct your figures. According to the Chronicle, the Battalion casualties for this period were as follows; Officers 4 killed 2 died of wounds 6 wounded ORs 20 killed 15 Died of wounds 140 wounded - of these 5 were wounded but returned to duty. 9 missing I hope this is of help to you, Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spadaman Posted 20 January , 2005 Share Posted 20 January , 2005 Simon Many thanks for this and the info re the diaries - I guess a trip to Kew is on the cards soon! The casualty figures were in the book Cheerful Sacrifice and I guess the chronical is more accurate. There are about 15 or so buried in Hibers Trench Cemetary and I had often wondered what had happened to the rest of those killed - I could not believe that so many would be lost or rather 'no known grave'. Now I know. I have learned so much about this battalion in the last few days and it's all down to the info you guys have suplied - thanks once again. Regards Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam3 Posted 23 March , 2008 Share Posted 23 March , 2008 Hello: I am also researching a solider from the 7th Bat. K.R.R.C. (Pte. McIntosh) who enlisted in Winchester in 1914. He won the MM on 2nd June 1917 keeping signal lines open in "No Man's Land". Do you by any chance know where the 7th Bat. would have been in May/June 1917? Can you tell me where to find the history. I have the brief history for the K.R.R.C. until 1915 but no later book. Thank you Pam Bill, Several years ago I researched a soldier who served with the 7/KRRC in WW1. He enlisted in 1914, served for two years before being wounded at Delville Wood in September 1916. He received a 'blighty' wound, but rejoined the Battalion in April 1917. He was awarded the MM for his bravery at Ypres in the Autumn of 1917, before being wounded again in the German's Spring Offensive in March 1918. At the time I read the Battalion war diaries at great length and have attached a very much abridged version which I hope will give you an insight into movements and battles of the Battalion during the war. Best wishes, Simon Bendry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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