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laughton

Caterpillar Valley Cemetery, Longueval

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laughton

During the investigation of the men lost from the 8th Bn Royal Highlanders (Black Watch), the research showed that one of the men from the initial attack on Bazentin Ridge was buried in the Caterpillar Valley Cemetery (Private Milne #3205). Of the 56 men listed on the CWGC database for 12-14 July 1916, 51 are listed on the Thiepval Memorial, 2 in the Dive Copse British Cemetery (medical station), 1 in the Caterpillar Valley Cemetery (Milne), 1 in the UK and 1 in Belgium. It was that final burial in Belgium that led to the research on Pte. Harry Lewis (this GWF Topic), as the battalion was clearly not in Belgium. A report has been drafted on that misidentification case.

 

It is logical that the Caterpillar Valley Cemetery is now home to many of the men of the 8th Bn Royal Highlanders (Black Watch) as well as many others from the initial July 1916 assault, the March 1918 retreat and the recapture of the area in August 1918. This is clearly a "concentration cemetery". As with the others I have recently checked, I have taken what the CWGC has said about the cemetery and then added the trench map coordinates (TMC in bold) of the cemeteries that were concentrated into this cemetery. I then collect and ZIP the files for the GRRF, COG-BR and other files of interest, all of which are shared openly with GWF and CEFSG members (and any others that need them).

 

Quote

Caterpillar Valley was the name given by the army to the long valley which runs West to East, past "Caterpillar Wood", to the high ground at Guillemont. Longueval village is on the Northern crest of this valley and 500 metres West of the village, on the South side of the road to Contalmaison, is Caterpillar Valley Cemetery. Caterpillar Valley was captured during a successful night assault by the 3rd, 7th and 9th Divisions on Bazentin Ridge on 14 July 1916. It was lost in the German advance of March 1918 and recovered by the 38th (Welsh) Division on 28 August 1918, when a little cemetery was made (now Plot 1 of this cemetery) containing 25 graves of the 38th Division and the 6th Dragoon Guards. After the Armistice, this cemetery was hugely increased when the graves of more than 5,500 officers and men were brought in from other small cemeteries, and the battlefields of the Somme. The great majority of these soldiers died in the autumn of 1916 and almost all the rest in August or September 1918.

 

Of the burial grounds from which Commonwealth graves were taken to Caterpillar Valley Cemetery:-

 

  • CLARK's DUMP CEMETERY, BAZENTIN 57c.S.3.d.3.7, was a little West of High Wood, on the road from Bazentin-le-Petit to Flers. It contained the graves of 26 soldiers from the United Kingdom, and two from South Africa, who fell in August-December 1916.
     
  • GINCHY GERMAN CEMETERY (500 metres North of the village, between the Flers and Lesboeufs roads), in which two unknown British soldiers were buried.
    • I estimate that to be in the area of 57c.T.13.b or 57c.T.14.a
    • it may be what is on the CWGC DAL (David Avery List) shown as Ginchy Advanced Dressing Station Cemetery 57c.T.14.a.0.6
       
  • McCORMICK's POST CEMETERY, FLERS 57c.M.35.d.9.5, nearly two kilometres West of Flers village. Here were buried 19 soldiers from the United Kingdom, nine from Australia and nine from New Zealand, who fell in September-November 1916.
     
  • MARTINPUICH ROAD CEMETERY, BAZENTIN 57d.W.3.d.0.8 near Mesnil, contained the graves of 41 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell in July and August 1916.
     
  • SNOWDON CEMETERY, BAZENTIN 57c.S.15.a.9.1, in Bazentin-le-Grand village, contained the graves of 24 soldiers of the 38th (Welsh) Division who fell in August and September 1918.
     
  • WELSH CEMETERY, LONGUEVAL 57c.S.5.a.7.5, between Flers village and High Wood, in which were buried 17 soldiers of the 38th (Welsh) Division who fell in August and September 1918.
     

CATERPILLAR VALLEY CEMETERY now contains 5,573 Commonwealth burials and commemorations of the First World War. 3,798 of the burials are unidentified but there are special memorials to 32 casualties known or believed to be buried among them, and to three buried in McCormick's Post Cemetery 57c.M.35.d.9.5 whose graves were destroyed by shell fire.

 

On the 6th November 2004, the remains of an unidentified New Zealand soldier were removed from this cemetery and entrusted to New Zealand at a ceremony held at the Longueval Memorial, France. The remains had been exhumed by staff of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission from Plot 14, Row A, Grave 27 and were later laid to rest within the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior, at the National War Memorial, Wellington, New Zealand. On the east side of the cemetery is the CATERPILLAR VALLEY (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL, commemorating more than 1,200 officers and men of the New Zealand Division who died in the Battles of the Somme in 1916, and whose graves are not known. This is one of seven memorials in France and Belgium to those New Zealand soldiers who died on the Western Front and whose graves are not known. 

.  

The known member of the 8th Bn Royal Highlanders (Black Watch) provided the GRRF and COG-BR details needed to start the preparation of the ZIP files. They will appear in the next post after they are collected, zipped and uploaded.

 

With 3,798 UNKNOWNS, I expect this cemetery will yield some interesting results! Those that appear promising, as in the identification of an unknown, will appear as a separate topic in "Recovering the Fallen" section of the forum.

 

WIth 5,500 Officers and ORs concentrated into this cemetery from the smaller cemeteries and battlefields, it is also likely that there will be some Canadians amongst the unknown. The CWGC numbers suggest that 1,700 or more of these men were identified during the concentration process.

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laughton

Here are the ZIP Files for the initial sets of recovered documents. I say "initial" as it would appear to me that there should be more COG-BR documents than what are shown here. That has happened in the past, when the other sets of documents are in another numbered sequence. To find those, I have to look for someone "known" on the GRRF documents that was concentrated but is not in the COG-BR documents already recovered. When that happens, I add them to the ZIP files as another series.

 

Caterpillar Valley Cemetery, Longueval

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laughton

Some interesting cases from the COG-BR records:

  • 1 Officer (2nd Lt) and 7 OR of the Royal Highlanders at 57c.S.17.d.2.8 (COG-BR 1980632), however we don't know which battalion and there are 6 2nd Lt on the CWGC for July 1916 for the Thiepval Memorial (CWGC Link)
  • Could there be confusion of a "Cameron Highlander" with "Royal Highlander" as there is one (CWGC Link) with #12685 (COG-BR 1980646) found at 57c.S.8.d.8.9 Bazentin-le-Petit (a small wood or a cemetery shows on the McMaster Map)
  • a British Officer of the Gordon Highlanders found at at 57c.S.9.b.7.6 (COG-BR 1980647)
  • a Second Lieutenant of the New Zealand Rifle Brigade at 57c.S.11.b.1.8 (COG-BR 1980651), for which there are three (3) on the "Caterpillar Valley (New Zealand) Memorial".
  • to be continued .... for those past COG-BR 1980671 and all those on the new set just found (see note below for New Zealand)

 

I did not include those that were "too open", such as the Second Lieutenant of the Machine Gun Corps (COG-BR 1980653), when there are 33 on the Thiepval Memorial alone. Similarly, there are a number of "Unknown Officers" that have no specific rank or unit affiliation.

 

There was an odd one (COG-BR 1980670) that resulted in an Unknown French Soldier turning into an Unknown Royal Army Medical Corps (GRRF 1980367)? I was just checking to see if they left the French Soldier in the British Cemetery. Maybe they moved him and reallocated the space?

 

I was looking at who New Zealand selected for their UNKNOWN SOLDIER ON THE MEMORIAL (from grave 14.A.27) and that has provided me with a COG-BR number in a NEW SERIES so I can not go and collect those documents as well:

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Ghazala

D5AC4B77-C9AF-4822-901C-A2A68F2C44FA.png

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chaz

We were there last year, there was a younger couple in a hire car paying their respects to the grave. Being nosey we went over after they had gone and saw what they were looking at, long way to travel if they thought he was still there.

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laughton
21 hours ago, laughton said:

to be continued .... for those past COG-BR 1980671 and all those on the new set just found (see note below for New Zealand)

 

The new set of COG-BR documents have now been ZIPPED and unloaded to the CEFSG shared MediaFire site. They are in the same folder:

 

Caterpillar Valley Cemetery, Longueval

 

There may still be more files, only time will tell. If anyone ever finds missing files, even if only one, please let me know so I can collect them. This applies to any cemetery, not just Caterpillar. So now continuing with the first list:

  • just a possibility that NZRB 9796 might be NZRB 47966, RIfleman Joseph Brewley, if someone wants to check their location 57cS.11.a.9.1 (COG-BR 1980677) for 5 April 1918
  • how many of the UNKNOWN Serjeants of the NZRB (COG-BR 1980688) are in Caterpillar Cemetery (not Memorial) for the 15 on the memorial (CWGC Link)
  • Bisley 11296 (COG-BR 1980714) is Bibby 11696, which might help point to the Officer beside him, if of the same battalion for August 1916
  • there is only one (1) Corporal of the 2nd Leinster Regiment (Frank Gurney) on the Thiepval Memorial - check if at 57c.S.10.b.7.5 on 18 August 1916

That is the end of the first batch. I will check a bit more on the Corporal noted immediately above and see if he should have his own topic.

 

I will return to check through the second batch of COG-BR documents.

 

 

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laughton

I was checking on what names were on the Special Memorials. They were not in the batch of GRRF documents downloaded? I downloaded the complete database for the cemetery and then looked for some names and from that found another batch of GRRF documents from 2253749 to 2253848. Those have now been downloaded, zipped and added to the MediaFire folder. The first one in that batch was a "lost COG-BR" which I have left there for the moment.

 

As is the case in many cemeteries, a lot of the initially planned Memorial Plots were cancelled, most often when the names were added to one of the Major Memorials, such as Thiepval. The only ones that should remain are those that are designated A, B, C, D, E or F. Other such as Corporal Taylor were cancelled when it was found he was buried in another cemetery.

 

The Special Memorial E (Kipling Memorial) for the men in McCormicks Post Cemetery are in GRRF 2253835.  One of those was removed (R. W. Reed of the Black Watch) who may not have existed, as I can not find him.

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laughton

Back to the new set of COG-BR documents. Here are some interesting leads:

  • An unknown New Zealand Serjeant (or Sergeant in NZ?) with an number 18070 (COG-BR 2460209) found at 57c.S.5.c.0.4. There is a Serjeant Thomas Siddle 23/1807 on the  CATERPILLAR VALLEY (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL that probably fits that to a tee. He is with the Otago Regiment, so I would have to check out their location on 15 September 1916. The other candidate is from August 1918 (CWGC Link). He is in grave 14.A.21 and there is another Serjeant in 14.A.29 - so two Serjeants?
  • more to follow ..... now at 2460233 and going blind!

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Don Regiano
3 hours ago, laughton said:

Back to the new set of COG-BR documents. Here are some interesting leads:

  • An unknown New Zealand Serjeant (or Sergeant in NZ?) with an number 18070 (COG-BR 2460209) found at 57c.S.5.c.0.4. There is a Serjeant Thomas Siddle 23/1807 on the  CATERPILLAR VALLEY (NEW ZEALAND) MEMORIAL that probably fits that to a tee. He is with the Otago Regiment, so I would have to check out their location on 15 September 1916.

 

Richard.

 

According to the set of maps accompanying Trevor Pidgeon's "The Tanks at Flers", the disposition of 2 Otago at the start of the advance and the line of attack was very much in S. 5. c (although the accompanying text refers to Otago Trench as being their front trench, this being just inside S. 11. a and crossing S. 5. c at point 0. 1).  The reference 5. c. 0. 4 (Cross Trench)  is slightly further west of the extreme western end of where they lined up (and arguably just inside 47th Division's area) - not allowing for slight mapping errors.  2 Otago were themselves the most westerly of the NZ forces and lined up D-C-B-A companies from west to east.

 

Reg

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laughton

Thanks Reg! I will come back to him after I finish checking the rest of the COG-BR documents. If it looks promising, I will make him his own topic.

 

Continuing on the sheets:

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laughton

There are quite a few with regimental details and battalions that don't match up. Too bad they did not keep the effects for subsequent review! For example, "2248 Unknown 4 Gordons" (COG-BR 2460309). Justin will know what the codes mean.

 

Added: There is another Gordon's 5384 (COG-BR 2460208) who does exist and is an UNKNOWN, but for 25 September 11915 on the Loos Memorial!

 

There are also a lot of "Unknown Officers", but unlike many of the other reports, there does not seem to be "Special Exhumations".

 

That ends the review of the COG-BR documents for this cemetery. Only two (2) were marked for further review at this time, to which I have now added the case for the Sergeant of the New Zealand Regiment.

  1. Caterpillar Valley Cemetery Case #1: Corporal 2nd Bn Leinster Regiment
  2. Caterpillar Valley Cemetery Case #2: Unknown Glasgow Highlander
  3. Caterpillar Valley Cemetery Case #3: Unknown Sergeant New Zealand Regiment
Edited by laughton
Added:

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laughton

It would appear that it is important to check on the number of SPECIAL MEMORIALS that are found in this cemetery, just to see if it impacts on any of the cases.

 

 

 

It most certainly did!

  1. The first thing I discovered is that there is no entry for Sp. Mem. 26. Initially I assumed that was a CWGC error, but on checking the primary documents (GRRF 2253829), I see that he was found to have an actual grave in Serre Road Cemetery No. 2, looks like Plot 36 Row G Grave 1 (correct - CWGC Link). The same applies to those that were initially to be in the 28 and 29 Special Memorial slots. 
     
  2. Next on the list is the presence of Private Hay, a member of the 9th (Glasgow Highlanders) Bn., Highland Light Infantry. I have added the details on that find to his topic, which I had started a few days ago (Caterpillar Valley Cemetery Case #2: Unknown Glasgow Highlander). Prior to that, we had two spots open but only one man, now we have the second!
     
  3. The real reason for checking these in the first place was to make sure that the Corporal of the Leinster Regiment in Case #1 was not listed. He was not, so that one is clear to go forward.
surname initials death rank regiment unit # Special Memorial
WHITE W 12-10-16 Lieutenant Bedfordshire Regiment 2nd Bn.   McCormick's Post Mem. 1.
SIMPSON G 05-10-16 Driver Royal Field Artillery "B" Bty. 189th Bde. '111529' McCormick's Post Mem. 2.
PATERSON R D 12-10-16 Lieutenant The King's (Liverpool Regiment) 20th Bn.   McCormick's Post Mem. 4.
SHARP G 30-07-16 Private Hertfordshire Regiment   '4779' Sp. Mem. 1.
PETO B H 15-07-16 Private The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment) 1st Bn. 'G/182' Sp. Mem. 2.
SOUTHERN B 22-07-16 Private South Lancashire Regiment 7th Bn. '26042' Sp. Mem. 3.
WOODS E H T 15-07-16 Second Lieutenant Suffolk Regiment 4th Bn.   Sp. Mem. 4
JONES H 07-09-16 Private Welsh Regiment 6th Bn. '2172' Sp. Mem. 5.
SCORGIE A 04-08-16 Private Gordon Highlanders 1st/7th Bn. attd. 1st/6th Bn. '3042' Sp. Mem. 6.
JUDD E 27-10-16 Sergeant Australian Infantry, A.I.F. 53rd Bn. '1498' Sp. Mem. 7.
JUDSON W H 27-10-16 Sergeant Australian Infantry, A.I.F. 53rd Bn. '2160' Sp. Mem. 8.
LEWIS B T 27-08-18 Private Welsh Regiment "C" Coy. 14th Bn. '56784' Sp. Mem. 9.
WOLSTENHULME J 26-08-18 Private Manchester Regiment 12th Bn. '61173' Sp. Mem. 10.
JOHNSON R H 27-08-18 Private Machine Gun Corps (Infantry) 38th Bn. '128926' Sp. Mem. 11.
WILCOCK F N 23-07-16 Lance Corporal The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment 7th Bn. '13141' Sp. Mem. 12.
WHITTLE C 23-07-16 Private The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment 7th Bn. '13064' Sp. Mem. 13.
NORMAN A 09-08-16 Private Bedfordshire Regiment 6th Bn. '13113' Sp. Mem. 14.
MOORE C W 09-08-16 Private Bedfordshire Regiment 6th Bn. '28194' Sp. Mem. 15.
UNDERHILL F G 30-07-16 Lance Corporal Hertfordshire Regiment   '3201' Sp. Mem. 16.
TROMAN C G 23-07-16 Private Royal Warwickshire Regiment "A" Coy. 14th Bn. '83' Sp. Mem. 17.
HAY G R 15-07-16 Private Highland Light Infantry "A" Coy. 9th (Glasgow Hds.) Bn. '4350' Sp. Mem. 18.
ROSS D 02-08-16 Private Seaforth Highlanders 1st/5th Bn. '1054' Sp. Mem. 19.
KEIR J 13-08-16 Private Highland Light Infantry 12th Bn. '24569' Sp. Mem. 20.
ELLISSON C D 29-07-16 Sapper Royal Engineers 82nd Field Coy. '43609' Sp. Mem. 21.
CAMPBELL D 03-08-16 Private Royal Scots 16th Bn. '18809' Sp. Mem. 22.
NICKALLS E G 18-08-16 Second Lieutenant The King's (Liverpool Regiment) 4th Bn.   Sp. Mem. 23.
IRVING T H 19-08-16 Second Lieutenant The King's (Liverpool Regiment) 3rd Bn.   Sp. Mem. 24.
BURGESS W H L 20-07-16 Captain Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) 3rd Bn. attd. 1st Bn.   Sp. Mem. 25.
PALMER R 30-07-16 Private Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) 7th Bn. 'S/5556' Sp. Mem. 27.
NORTHRIDGE A 08-09-16 Sapper Royal Engineers 178th Tunnelling Coy. '144848' Sp. Mem. 30.
WILSON C H 12-08-16 Sapper Royal Engineers 178th Tunnelling Coy. '112694' Sp. Mem. 31.
JACOBS E E 19-08-16 Sapper Royal Engineers 178th Tunnelling Coy. '148462' Sp. Mem. 32.
SLATTER P D 15-09-16 Lance Corporal London Regiment (Prince of Wales' Own Civil Service Rifles) 15th Bn. '530901' Sp. Mem. 33.
GLUCKSTEIN C 19-08-16 Private Middlesex Regiment 1st/8th Bn. 'TF/4380' Sp. Mem. 34.
GARLAND W V R 15-09-16 Rifleman London Regiment (London Irish Rifles) 18th Bn. '4874' Sp. Mem. 35.

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laughton

The above work resulted in a new case:

 

Caterpillar Valley Cemetery Case #4: Another Possible Error - Argyll and Sutherland Highlander/

 

That is a link to the new topic.

 

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laughton

There may be a Case #5 if the Second Lieutenant of the New Zealand Rifle Brigade (all 3rd Battalion, 3rd Brigade) can be narrowed down by the date and the location. There are two (2) unknown in October 1916 and one (1) two weeks earlier (CWGC Link) on 15 September 1916. The remains were found at 57c.S.11.b.1.8, which is about 650 yards northwest of Deville Wood (McMaster Map [Bapaume] 57c).

 

I would have to get my hands on the war diary.

 

If we check some of the men of the unit in the cemetery, we have Private Thompson (4th Bn., 3rd NZRB) at 57c.S.5.c.1.5 (COG-BR 2460211) on 15 September 1916. Private Candton, same battalion and date, was in close proximity. The two men of the 3rd Battalion 3rd Brigade were KIA on 29 September 1916. Rfn. Twigger was recovered from 57c.M.35.d.9.5 (COG-BR 2133417), as was Rfn. Curry on the same document. That area is due west of Flers, about 1,300 yards north of where the remains of the 2nd Lieutenant was found north of the woods. That would suggest the battalion was heading north, meaning that the Second Lieutenant is Robert Daniel Norrie. That would need to be confirmed from the war diary.

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laughton

Possible answer to the UK NZRB with "9796" as nobody has "979" but there is one missing with the "796" (COG-BR 1980677).

 

Rifleman Hary Frank Pacey-Buck #25/796

 

We know the 3rd Bn 3rd Brigade was in the area where the remains were recovered  - see above post about the Lieutenant of the same unit.

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laughton

Going through the COG-BR documents again, with direct comparison to the SPECIAL MEMORIALS, provided some interesting results. I have only listed those that have only one candidate for the grave. This information may be of value for any ancestors that are checking to see what grave just might belong to their relative.
 

  • The two Australian Infantry Sergeants (E. Judd and W. H. Judson) on Special Memorial 7 and Special Memorial 8 may be in graves 2.C.8 to 2.C.10 (COG-BR 2460315). There are 55 Australians buried in the Caterpillar Valley Cemetery, which includes these 2 on the Special Memorials.
     
  • The 1st Gordon Highlander reference for Private A. Scorgie on SM6 appears only for grave 12.F.7 (COG-BR 2460354). The issue would be is that it was not just the "1st", rather it was "1st/7th" attached to "1st/6th".
     
  • Rifleman Garland of the 18th London Regiment on SM 35 is an ideal candidate for the Unknown 18th in 16.A.31 (COG-BR 2460340). The listing on the COG-BR refers specifically to the London Regiment and the 18th Battalion. The other one is 15th Battalion PWOCSR.
     
  • There is an Unknown Private of the Machine Gun Corps in grave 2.J.10 but the unit is not designated. It could be Private R. H. Johnson who is named on Special Memorial 11 (COG-BR 1980697).
     
  • There is an Unknown Manchester in grave 12.C.6, identified only by the regiment. It could be Private J. Wolstenhulme (COG-BR 2460303) who is named on Special Memorial 34.
     
  • There is an Unknown Officer of the Suffolk Regiment  in grave 14.C.33 (COG-BR 1980619) and a corresponding Second Lieutenant E. H. T. Woods of the 4th Bn Suffolk Regiment named on Special Memorial 4. The battalion is not specified.
     
  • There is another Unknown Officer, this time of the King's (Liverpool Regiment) in grave 11.H.13 (COG-BR 1980619) for which there are two possible Second Lieutenants (T. H. Irving and E. G. Nickalls) named on Special Memorials 23 and 24, so probably one of those two. The third Officer is a Lieutenant and he is on the Kipling Memorial as his grave had been destroyed.

 

The details of the names and memorials was provided in post #13 above. What is shown below is just the last two columns listing the Special Memorial and the possible locations, where the "@9999999" number refers to the COG-BR.

 

Special Memorial Possible Locations in Cemetery
Sp. Mem. 7. 3 in 2.C.8-10 @2460315 - 2 on one cross
Sp. Mem. 8. ditto
McCormick's Post Mem. 1. XXXXXX
Sp. Mem. 14. 14.G.1, 14.G.7. 11.E.37, 6.A.23@2460237, 6.F.32 @2460247
Sp. Mem. 15. ditto
Sp. Mem. 27. 7.F.39 @2460258, 8.H.34 @2460275, 12.A.21 @2460297, 12.G.14 @2460357
Sp. Mem. 25. 11.E.24
Sp. Mem. 6. 12.F.7 @2460354
Sp. Mem. 1. 5.F.15 @2460222
Sp. Mem. 16. ditto
Sp. Mem. 18. Now we know he is in 7.C.31
Sp. Mem. 20. 15.B.9, 5.K.18 @2460223, 6.C.16 @2460240, 4.K.3 @2460324
Sp. Mem. 35. 16.A.31 @2460340
Sp. Mem. 33.  
Sp. Mem. 11. 2.J.10 @1980697
Sp. Mem. 10. 12.C.6 @2460303
Sp. Mem. 34. 7.B.31 @2460252
Sp. Mem. 30. 14.D.39 @1980661
Sp. Mem. 31. 12.F.17 @2460351
Sp. Mem. 32.  
Sp. Mem. 21.  
McCormick's Post Mem. 2. XXXXXX
Sp. Mem. 22. 14.E.39, 14.E.22, 14.E.14, 14.E.19
Sp. Mem. 17.  
Sp. Mem. 19.  
Sp. Mem. 3.  
Sp. Mem. 4 Officer 14.C.33 21980619
McCormick's Post Mem. 4. XXXXXX
Sp. Mem. 24. Officer 11.H.13 @2460204
Sp. Mem. 23. ditto
Sp. Mem. 12.  
Sp. Mem. 13.  
Sp. Mem. 2.  
Sp. Mem. 9. 2 Unknown Welsh 10.F.11 & 12 @1980653, 12/D/19 @2460308
Sp. Mem. 5. ditto
Edited by laughton
continued with list

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Waterloo Wanderer

Hello All,

 

Great topic and information!  I am doing some research into a relative of mine that is listed missing at Thiepval but, I suspect may be at Caterpillar Valley and have a question for you all.  I see a reference on the first GRRF sheet (doc1980208.jpg) referring to bodies retrieved from Clark's Dump - does anybody know which graves this refers to?  

 

Thanks,

Dan

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laughton

In the first post:

 

On 16/08/2018 at 06:21, laughton said:

CLARK's DUMP CEMETERY, BAZENTIN 57c.S.3.d.3.7, was a little West of High Wood, on the road from Bazentin-le-Petit to Flers. It contained the graves of 26 soldiers from the United Kingdom, and two from South Africa, who fell in August-December 1916.

 

So that means you have to look for 26 UK and 2 SA men that came from 57c.S3.d.3.7 and from that general area as well.

 

COG-BR 1980650 has 3 men from 57c.S.3.d.0.0 in 15.D.7,8,9

COG-BR 1980672 has 1 man same location, no body found, memorial plot

COG-BR 1980674 has 1 man same location 11.B.21

COG-BR 1980675 9 men close location at 57c.S.3.c.2.0 in 11.B.29-39 + 1 next page

COG-BR 2460323 starts a group in 57c.S.3.d.7.4 from 13.K.4

COG-BR 2460324 continues that group but the grave locations are changed - confirm those against the ones with known names, such as Fowler

COG-BR 2460326 again a mixture in 14.B.11-20

COG-BR 2460339 mixture 16.A.21-30 and on to 40 on the next page - this one has the two (2) South Africans in 16.A.27 & 28 form 57c.S.3.d.9.2

COG-BR 2460342 in close proximity at 57c.S.3.c

COG-BR 2460343 57d.S.3 general area 16.B.11-20

 

Strange that not one matched the exact coordinates but obviously it is related to the one COG-BR with the two South African graves.

 

I would check all the sheets for the battalion related to your relative. It always helps if you are asking a question if you provide all the details about who you are searching for: name, number, rank, unit, date, location etc.

 

 

 

 

 

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Waterloo Wanderer

Hi Richard,

 

Thanks for the great info - I'll have to dig around some more in the documents.  I'm looking into my great-grandfather and his brother (see link below).  James Suggitt (the brother) was killed on August 17 1916 in a German counterattack on Clark's Trench which is located just north of Clark's Dump Cemetery.  So, I'm basically working on some hunches here.  Of the 30 Royal Sussex listed as killed that day, 19 are missing (Thiepval) and 7 are located in Caterpillar Valley Cemetery with the remaining three in 3 other cemeteries (Delville Wood, Combles Communal Extension, Serre Road #2).  So based on percentages, I believe there is a good chance that a number of the missing 19 are located at Caterpillar Valley.

 

The 7 in Caterpillar Valley are:

GC Reeves (16.E.18)

F Tucknott (16.B.20  - aligns with COG-BR-2460343)

GS Knight (16.F.21)

SD Osborne (16.F.22)

F Clayton (8.D.19)

H Davies (16.E.12

H Saunders (16.E.16) 

 

Thanks!

Dan

 

 

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