John Melling Tyrer - King's (Liverpool) Regiment and Machine Gun Corps

[Blue Dragoon]

Hello

 

I'm doing some research on John Melling Tyrer.MM b 1897 Liverpool m 1921 Edith Broadbent d 1975 Merseyside

4566 King's (Liverpool) Regiment (Pte)

70946 165 Company Machine Gun Corps (Cpl)

 

I have his medal index card and medal index roll entry plus all his supporting census and BMD records but as far as I can see no service or pension record for him exists.  He was awarded the MM which we assume is for gallantry on the Somme when with the MGC.

 

Could some kind army number ninja give me a clue as to when he was likely to have enlisted and perhaps identify when he transferred to the MGC.  Any other clues as to his possible service also appreciated.

 

Many thanks for any assistance

 

Best wishes

[Ken Lees]

He was probably a Territorial, since he transferred to the 165 Coy, MGC (55th Division).

 

So, without knowing which of the King's Liverpool battalions he was in it won't be possible to tie down when he enlisted from his number.

If he was 1/9th Bn. then he enlisted between 15th and 18th November, 1915.

 

Ken

 

[Blue Dragoon]

Cheers Ken, why did you select 1/9th as a possible example option?

[Ken Lees]

Just now, Blue Dragoon said:

Cheers Ken, why did you select 1/9th as a possible example option?

 

He was 55th Division, so it is one of 1/5th, 1/6th, 1/7th, 1/8th, 1/8th, 1/9th or 1/10th.

 

The 1/9th is my primary interest and I have a large database of men who served. He isn't listed in it, but numbers close to his gave me that date range.

[Blue Dragoon]

Nice one Ken, many thanks

[Blue Dragoon]

Has anyone any idea in what war diary 165 company MGC exploits would be recorded?

Edited 15 August , 2018 by Blue Dragoon

[clk]

Hi,

 

His service papers are here. They appear to read:

 

1.11.1915 - attestation approved to 5/KLR

28.11.1916 - transferred to MGC, and posted 165 Coy MGC

31.3.1918 - to Base Depot

7.4.1918 - posted 62 Bn MGC (served in 'D' Coy)

 

Regards

Chris

[clk]

Hi,

 

6 minutes ago, Blue Dragoon said:

Has anyone any idea in what war diary 165 company MGC exploits would be recorded?

 

From the National Archives, this one I think. Ancestry should also have it - search page.

 

Regards

Chris

[Blue Dragoon]

Cheers Chris.  I've searched the ancestry site for 165 Coy but cant seem to find them.  Also tried to find 165 Bde HQ.  The service paper link on find my past is interesting as I couldn't find anything on ancestry

 

[Blue Dragoon]

Hi chris, please could you re-post the findmypast link.  Its now defaulting to a search page with no records shown. cheers

[Blue Dragoon]

got the war diary cheers

[clk]

Hi,

 

1 hour ago, Blue Dragoon said:

please could you re-post the findmypast link.  Its now defaulting to a search page with no records shown

 

That's strange it doesn't work for me now either. The re-post link to the hits is here. Failing that from their 'Military, armed forces & conflict' search page, using the terms 'Soldier Number' = 70946; and 'Last name' = Tyre* will hopefully get you there.

 

Regards

Chris

[Blue Dragoon]

Many Thanks Chris.  Strange I cant pick up that record on ancestry

[Blue Dragoon]

Hi Chris, got the records but having difficulty finding the date reference with respect to his transfer to 165 MGC 28.11.1916??  Can you give me a pointer?

 

Cheers

Edited 15 August , 2018 by Blue Dragoon

[clk]

Hi,

 

Sorry, the penny didn't drop at the time, but if you do the search using his 4566 number it picks up a service record that has a couple more pages.

 

Image source: Findmypast - WW1 Service records

 

Regards

Chris

[Blue Dragoon]

aha great stuff!!  Many thanks

 

[Blue Dragoon]

Didn't think KLR had a 5th Bn?  Do you think its 1/5th?

[Mark1959]

Note previous thread created by a relation

 

 

[Ken Lees]

3 hours ago, Blue Dragoon said:

Didn't think KLR had a 5th Bn?  Do you think its 1/5th?

 

It began as the 5th in 1908 on formation of the Territorial Force. At the beginning of the war all TF battalions were ordered to form a second line battalion, hence 1/5th & 2/5th. Later a third line battalion was added. 

 

The first line battalions went to France and in Jan 1916 they joined the newly re-formed West Lancashire Division (the 55th). The second line King's Liverpool battalions went to France in February 1917 in the 57th (2nd West Lancashire) Division. 

[clk]

Hi,

 

4 hours ago, Blue Dragoon said:

Didn't think KLR had a 5th Bn?  Do you think its 1/5th?

 

Over the course of the war they (kind of) had three 5th Battalions (1/5; 2/5; and 3/5) - the 1st line 5th Bn; the 2nd line 5th Bn; and the 3rd line 5th Bn - see the LLT here. 

 

The 1/5th went overseas in February 1915*. They would have been just called the 5th Bn prior to the formation of the 2nd and 3rd line units.

The 2/5th were formed in September 1914, and went overseas in February 1917.

The 3/5th were formed in May 1915 and remained in the UK.

 

From his record, John attested in November 1915 and arrived in France on 10th April 1916. That must mean that he arrived as a reinforcement to the 1/5th Bn before being transferred to the MGC in November 1916. The war diary is here at the National Archives, or here on Ancestry. The diary entry for 18th April 1916 notes that 2 officers and 167 men were received from the base. I wonder if John might have been with that draft?

 

Prior to his MM award appearing in the London Gazette it appears in the 55 Division Routine Orders of 23rd August 1917 - Ancestry link

 

 

 

Images sourced from Ancestry.co.uk - WW1 British army war diaries

 

Regards

Chris

 

Edit:

*They disembarked at Le Havre - 8 am on February 22nd 1915, and served as part of 2 Division before being moved to 55 Division in January 1916. War diary Ancestry link

Edited 15 August , 2018 by clk

[Blue Dragoon]

Really appreciated.  Many thanks