Pierce09 Posted 14 August , 2018 Share Posted 14 August , 2018 Whilst researching a relative, I found a MIC and several entries into the medal rolls that I am unable to fully understand. 12242 Pte William C Shortman South Wales Borderers later 221822 Gnr Shortman RGA. according to the MIC, he enter the Asiatic theatre (5a) on 12.7.15 (Mesapotamia) MIC has him eligible for 15 star, BWM and VM. All were forfeited under K.R 392 (XI) Auth NW/9/2353 BWM & VM retd (forfeited) CRV 800/B 1/6/22 NW/9/2353 15 star retd (forfeited) CRV 432 7/6/22 auth NW/9/2353 It is also possible he may have served post WW1 with the number 1415027 in the RA and was possibly awarded an IGS. The medal roll number IGS/M/RGA/1 page 6 for the entitlement. This was forfeited Para 392 (XI) K.R 13.5.22 There is some writing on the back of the MIC that possibly says "Oi/c RGA Recs. (Dover funds) list of forfeitures of medals 2/6/22" I'm unsure of the bracketed part. Questions I have; a) does anyone have any insight into this forfeiture? b) why does his roll entries still have reference to his SWB rank and unit whilst the entry is in the RGA roll? Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 14 August , 2018 Share Posted 14 August , 2018 The reverse of the card actually reads "RGA records, Dover fwds (forwards) list of forfeitures of medals. Para 392 (XI) relates to misconduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1959 Posted 14 August , 2018 Share Posted 14 August , 2018 (edited) Dover Fwds so the Office I/c RGA Records Dover forwards..... Para 392 (xi) is being discharged for misconduct. So one assumes the misconduct led to forfeiture. The other answer is the rolls reflect what was stamped on the medals. So, for instance, the 1914/15 Star was earned whilst with 4th Battalion SWB and so His SWB details will have been on the Medal. Edited 14 August , 2018 by Mark1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierce09 Posted 14 August , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 August , 2018 Fwds. thank you. Misconduct severe enough for discharge and forfeiture of medals? Can't have been something small. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 14 August , 2018 Share Posted 14 August , 2018 I think that the CRV (Certified Receipt Voucher) references show that he did actually get the medals. Hopefully, an expert can advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1959 Posted 14 August , 2018 Share Posted 14 August , 2018 (edited) Edited my first post with more detail. The CRV ref refers to when the medals were received by the medal office after forfeiture. Edited 14 August , 2018 by Mark1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierce09 Posted 14 August , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 August , 2018 12 minutes ago, Mark1959 said: The other answer is the rolls reflect what was stamped on the medals. So, for instance, the 1914/15 Star was earned whilst with 4th Battalion SWB and so His SWB details will have been on the Medal. The 15 Star roll has his entry in the RGA roll and the SWB 15 Star roll entry is crossed out and marked 'in error'. Would that mean his 15 Star had SWB details or RGA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 15 August , 2018 Share Posted 15 August , 2018 A William Shortman was convicted at Lawford in November 1921 for stealing six savoys from an allotment. (Western Daily Press 25 November 1921) (FMP) Surely he wouldn't lose his medals for that? Mind you by January 1928 he had "other convictions". (27 January 1928 - Western Daily Press). RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 15 August , 2018 Share Posted 15 August , 2018 There is a W Shortman in the UK, Naval and Military Courts Martial Registers, 1806-1930 (in Fold 3) on Ancestry The date of appears to correspond with Rolt969's post above Name: W. Shortman Court or Trial Date: 25 Nov 1921 Court or Trial Place: Bordon Regiment: R. F. A. Reference Number: WO 86/91 Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 15 August , 2018 Share Posted 15 August , 2018 I have found two W Shortman RFA courts martial. It will take me a while because of the way the registers were written, to line up the next pages to see what for. I was about to say that it couldn't be the man who with his friend stole savoys, but since I think both cases involved desertion, perhaps it could have been. RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 15 August , 2018 Share Posted 15 August , 2018 All medals were impressed with the first unit a soldier served with abroad In Williams case the RGA as indicated by the x and four dots on his MIC (never did know what its name was) His 15 star was entered on the S.W.B medal roll in error this was corrected later and crossed out If Williams medals were forfeited for desertion I would have expected to have seen that on his Medal Index Card and also on the medal rolls Which indicates that as previously stated that the medals were most likely forfeited for some kind of misconduct Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierce09 Posted 15 August , 2018 Author Share Posted 15 August , 2018 Thank you for the information. I'm assessing he was serving in India in 1921. The press clip states he was in court November 1921 so it's possible he returned for his father's funeral in June 1921 in Monmouth and absconded then, if returning from overseas service for a death of an immediate relative was something that happen in 1921. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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