Royal Horse Artillery

[rmtnuke]

I'm looking for some help, please! My wife's great-grandfather was JAMES SIDNEY SKINNER. He had been a Devon blacksmith before WW1. He joined the Royal Artillery as Gunner 52460 on 21 April 1915 and was posted to Egypt. There is a suggestion he became a staff sergeant in the Royal Horse Artillery. All his records have been destroyed. There is some thought he went to Gallipoli. Does anyone have any ideas how I can take this forward?? Many thanks!

[DavidOwen]

His Medal Index Card has his rank as Shoeing Smith.

If you have access to Ancestry the Medal Rolls MIGHT have the battery he was part of listed there which would allow you then to check the war diary.

He does not appear to have been a Staff Sergeant during the war.

Good luck with your search

[JMB1943]

I would suggest that you delete this post and repost in “Soldiers” ( NOT Units&Formations) where it belongs,

and where the experts will be able to see it.

 

Regard,

JMB

[DavidOwen]

10 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

I would suggest that you delete this post and repost in “Soldiers” ( NOT Units&Formations) where it belongs,

and where the experts will be able to see it.

 

Regard,

JMB

Spotted JMB

I have reported the post so hopefully a Mod will move it.

David

[David Porter]

3 hours ago, rmtnuke said:

He joined the Royal Artillery as Gunner 52460 on 21 April 1915 and was posted to Egypt. There is a suggestion he became a staff sergeant in the Royal Horse Artillery.

 

He actually joined No. 4 Depot RFA, Woolwich on October 20 or 21, 1914. The date of April 21, 1915 is deemed to be his arrival in Egypt.

The Staff Sergeant is a misinterpretation of Shoeing Smith, both have the initials S.S., but the medal card makes it clear which one he was.

It is perfectly possible that he joined the RHA at Gallipoli but there doesn't seem to be any documentation to support this.

Also, I cannot find an RFA unit arriving in Egypt on April 21, 1915.

There is 1/A Battery HAC that disembarked at Alexandria on April 21, 1915 but I'd expect a number change, plus they didn't go to Gallipoli.

[charlie962]

5 hours ago, rmtnuke said:

He joined the Royal Artillery as Gunner 52460 on 21 April 1915

rmtnuke

can you just confirm please how you know for certain this is his army number.?

 

Charlie

 

Of course if he was a prewar  blacksmith then a wartime shoeing smith fits perfectly.

Edited 14 August , 2018 by charlie962

[charlie962]

Ancestry has some confusing family trees for him.  Basically they suggest he was born 24/8/81, Honiton. His Father John died 1882 and his mother remarried and so James Sidney seems to have been known as James Henry Sidney Stephen Skinner.  Those trees include MICs for JS Skinner Artillery 52460 but a second card for JH Skinner Devons 54568, LabourCorps 100572 and 422958 and RE 253597.

 

There is an 1898 Militia attestation For James S Skinner , Blacksmith born Honiton, in the 4th Bn Devonshire Regt.

 

The Militia Attestation looks good but I question the MICs. Hence why I ask what confirmation is there that these (or at least the Artillery) MICs are definitely him. Does someone in the family have medals or correspondence or ?

 

Charlie

[rmtnuke]

Good afternoon, each and every one of you who have been kind enough to have replied to my questions about the Royal Horse Artillery and my wife's great-grandfather, James Sidney Skinner. I would add that I am afraid that I am still very much a novice at all this so forgive any silly statements and lack of knowledge.

 

In answer to some of your questions!

 

I am pretty sure about the Militia Attestation. He had had a pretty rough childhood in Devon (his father died very young and his new stepfather is believed to have sold him to a farmer in Essex) and found himself working in Birmingham on the railways as teenager - but he got sacked and joined up with the 4th Battalion Devonshires in 1898, aged just 16. There is absolutely nothing in the way of letters, family stories etc to give me any great confidence in any of the few results I have found. I do know that he bought himself out the following year (goodness knows what that would have cost and where he would have got the money).

 

He went to live with his grandfather in Devon - he was a blacksmith and he taught him all about the trade.

 

Word had it he joined the Royal Horse Artillery when WW1 broke out. I asked a chap who researches WW1 soldiers if he could help but apart from giving me his number 54568, he could only add that his records had been destroyed.

 

My remarks about Gallipoli were based on nothing apart from a very vague family suggestion. I was very interested to read from David Porter about 1A Battery HAC (what's that??) landing in Egypt on 21 April 1915...that seems and feels right!

 

Thanks also to those who pointed out I'd posted all this in the wrong category...to be frank, I have not yet grasped what all the different fora stand for!

 

I very much look forward to any others thoughts any of you might have.

 

Meanwhile, thanks again. Kind regards,Robin

[David Porter]

51 minutes ago, rmtnuke said:

I was very interested to read from David Porter about 1A Battery HAC (what's that??) landing in Egypt on 21 April 1915...that seems and feels right!

 

As I also inferred, I doubt very much he landed with them. It was a Horse Artillery battery of the Honourable Artillery Company. They had their own numbering system, which he would have adopted if transferred from the regulars. The absence of another number indicates no such transfer.

[David Porter]

On 14/08/2018 at 20:07, charlie962 said:

a second card for JH Skinner Devons 54568, LabourCorps 100572 and 422958 and RE 253597

 

That is James Henry Skinner, a 21 year old Railway Porter from Portsmouth in 1916. Birth date given as March 28, 1895, so definitely not the same man.

[charlie962]

8 hours ago, rmtnuke said:

a chap who researches WW1 soldiers if he could help but apart from giving me his number 54568,

What evidence did he produce to show that this was your wife's ggf ? Or was it just the most likely ?

 

Shoeing Smith is very appropriate but not proof.

 

8 hours ago, rmtnuke said:

a very vague family suggestion

These should never be totally discarded but often get distorted. He worked with horses in the artillery ends up as he was in the Horse Artillery.  He went to Egypt ends up as he was at Gallipoli. He coluld have gone to Gallipoli, or to Salonika or Mesopotamia or remained in Egypt or ...etc.

 

I'm not being very helpful. It is worth exhausting the 54568 52460 route but all the time remaining sceptical.

 

Charlie

Edited 20 August , 2018 by charlie962

[clk]

Hi Robin,

 

The 1898 attestation papers for a 3651 James Sidney Skinner are here on Findmypast. They show that man attested 12.04.1898, age 18, at Cullompton to the 4/Devonshire militia. Born in the parish of Honiton. Resident in Cullompton, previously (within last 12 months) in Birmingham. "Calling" - blacksmith.

 

A 52460 J.S. Skinner RFA appears to be on a casualty list published in the Western Times on 14th August 1915

 

The record is from Findmypast (link). Unfortunately, my level of subscription doesn't allow me to look at the actual image.

 

There is a possible match in the Absent Voter Lists - 4th record from these search returns. It shows that a James Sidney Skinner was absent from 10, Council Gardens, Tiverton. Strangely though it doesn't record a service unit.

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

 

[David Porter]

10 hours ago, clk said:

The record is from Findmypast. Unfortunately, my level of subscription doesn't allow me to look at the actual image.

 

Great find.

It is a list of wounded men who have been sent to the Newton Abbot V.A.O. Hospital during the previous week. The newspaper date of August 14, 1915, so soon after he landed in Egypt, certainly adds weight to the story that he fought at Gallipoli.

[alantwo]

I haven't been able to find No.52460 J.S. Skinner mentioned in The Times Digital Archive as being wounded with the Mediterranean Force, could he have been evacuated sick to the hospital mentioned?

 

Regards

Alan

[rmtnuke]

Good morning - and yet again, thanks to every one of you who is helping me. I appreciate it very much.

 

May I now recap but I would appreciate it if you would point out if I have made any glaring mistakes.

 

My John Sidney Skinner was definitely not J.H.Skinner 54568 who turns out to be a railway porter from Portsmouth.

 

It is likely that he was Pte 52460 John Sidney Skinner who joined the Royal Artillery at No 4 Depot RFA (Royal Field Artillery?), Woolwich on 20 or 21 Oct 1914.

 

If he DID arrive in Egypt on 21 April 1915, could he have been wounded early on after his arrival...as it shows in Find my Past that Pte 52460 J.S.Skinner was admitted to Newton VAO Hospital (Western Times 14 Aug 1915)?

 

If he was this Skinner RFA, then is it probable that the family 'history' about him being in the Royal Horse Artillery is unlikely?

 

We know that he was born to John (a blacksmith) and his wife, Mary Jane Skinner, in Honiton on 24 Aug 1882. His father died a month after he was born. His mother, with three young children to raise, married farm labourer, Robert Arbery in Tiverton in 1885. If there is truth that James WAS sold to an Essex farmer, his elder sisters didn't fare much better. In the 1891 census, 15-year-old Annie was a housemaid to a stock broker in Kent and her 13 year-old sister, Louisa, was a domestic servant living away from home. Newly-born Arbery children meanwhile remained at home.

 

And my other puzzle is that the Absent Voters List shows that James Sidney Skinner was NOT at 10 Council Gardens, Tiverton, in Spring 1920. Later that year, he was found standing for the Labour ward as a local councillor in Tiverton - he went on to form Tiverton Town Football Club.

 

Once again, my great thanks to David Porter, clk, charlie962, David Owen etc. Fantastic! Kind regards, Robin

[Ron Clifton]

8 minutes ago, rmtnuke said:

t is likely that he was Pte 52460 John Sidney Skinner who joined the Royal Artillery at No 4 Depot RFA (Royal Field Artillery?), Woolwich on 20 or 21 Oct 1914.

 

If he DID arrive in Egypt on 21 April 1915, could he have been wounded early on after his arrival...as it shows in Find my Past that Pte 52460 J.S.Skinner was admitted to Newton VAO Hospital (Western Times 14 Aug 1915)?

 

If he was this Skinner RFA, then is it probable that the family 'history' about him being in the Royal Horse Artillery is unlikely?

In the period 1900-1920 there were two separate branches of the RA: the Royal Horse & Royal Field Artillery, and the Royal Garrison Artillery.

 

If he belonged to the first of these, he could still have served in the Royal Horse Artillery. The family history could still be right, although it is possible that "he served with horse-drawn guns" has been interpreted as "he was in the RHA". The RFA also had horse-drawn guns.

 

Ron