1/4th East Yorkshire Regiment and Others

[Pollexfen]

I am interested in a man who was in the above unit. His name was 42166 George Herbert Wilson and it is almost certain that he was one of the reinforcements that were rushed to the front following the opening of the 1918 German Spring Offensive. The Regiment was badly mauled in the initial thrust and it was probably after that that he joined them. Obviously the Regiment was moved to the quiet sector of Chemin Des Dames where they were hit again at the end of May and once again suffered badly to the extent that it was reduced to cadre status in June. Wryall says that a small number went off to form a training team but the rest (presumably my man included) were returned to "Base". From what I read the same happened to most/all of the regiments in the Division given the losses in battle.

All I know from there was that GHW was buried in St Erme Communal Cemetery Extension and that he died on 09.09.18. I just wondered if anyone could advise what, "Base" would have meant in practice in this situation and how I might find out more information about what he was up at the time of death? From a rough look at things St Erme would not have been in British control at that date? One clue is possibly that another man lying alongside him in the cemetery from the 1/6th Durham Light Infantry had a note sent to the family saying  (in 1919) that he had died on that date as a German prisioner of war so it suggests that they were both involved in a skirmish and ended up being cleared up by the Germans and buried before the Allies arrived?

Any other information or suggestions would be appreciated with thanks

Alun L Hughes

[PRC]

The International Red Cross have a file for him as G Herbert Wilson under reference P.A.42494

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/1735123/3/2/

 

This consists of a single page, part of a list received from the German Army records office in February 1919.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/1735123/698/42494/

 

I’ve attached a crop of the relevant information. It’s a list of the dead. He died at St Erme but my very limited German can’t work out anything more than that there was no information about cause of death, (“Nahere Angaben fallen”).

 

He was most likely captured during the Spring – a local source like a newspaper may give you more information if his service records haven’t survived.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

[MaxD]

Soldier(ie private soldier) - no further details known - died 9 Sep 18 at St Erme - reported by the Kommandatur of the Friedrichsfeld POW camp near Wesel.  (File reference)

 

Max

Edited 13 August , 2018 by MaxD
spelling

[Pollexfen]

Thanks for these lines of inquiry. I never thought of checking the Red Cross record because I just assumed (and you know what they say about that) that being with St Erme so close to the front line that it was more immediate to the events unfolding at that time? I will get a translation. I know another man that I am interested in died around the same time in captivity in Germany from the Flu so maybe that was a cause? I wonder if they had so many prisoners from the spring that they had to keep them in pens behind the lines from shortage of available space in POW camps in Germany? And then again there's MaxD's point about Friedrichsfeld???

More to do. Thanks again.

Alun

[MaxD]

The translation of the record is in my post above!  (The "no further details" refers to the lack of birth place/date which usually follows after the man's regiment, see other records on the same page).  There are a number of men buried at St Erme reported by Friedrichsfeld which suggests that the Kommandantur there had some sort of responsibility for burials at St Erme 

 

Max

 

 

[Pollexfen]

Still routing for information but while looking to update his record on Lives of the First World War, I spotted a link for the first time for a Midland Bank record for him which tells me that he was reported missing/captured on 30th July and other useful info. There was nothing in the local paper about him unfortunately. It still leaves open the question as to what unit he would have been serving with at the time given the separation of the regiment's personnel in June? Also I've noticed that on the list from the Germans are four other similar cases which are also buried at St Erme and are linked to Freidrichsfeld.

Just noticed your update MaxD and thanks.

 

[PRC]

My initial though was perhaps he was on a work party from Freidrichsfeld when he died at St Erme, but investigating the location of that camp makes it seem unlikely. However I did come across this thread while I was looking for that information -

I did pick up on one piece of information that might be relevant, although it could be a case of two and two makes five :-)

 

This came from a piece on a Keswick man captured in March 1918 and was part of a bigger piece on his experiences.

 

Prisoners not seriously wounded were made to work behind the German lines, and in October about 3,000 were brought from the lines into Friedrichsfeld camp. They were physical wrecks some having worked behind the lines for six or seven months.

 

That would throw up an alternative scenario - that he was scheduled to be sent to Friedrichsfeld but never made it, having died on the way or prior to leaving. Tidying up the admin side was left to the PoW camp, hence the lack of information.

 

As to unit it certainly seems George told his captors he was 4th East Yorks. Have you thought about requesting a War Siary look up for the unit for the dates when they were reduced to a Line of Communication unit as cadre to see if there are any details there of where surplus troops were disposed to. Also might be worth a look up of the date of capture.

 

Good luck,

Peter

[Pollexfen]

Thank you Peter for your help with this persuasive argument. I will have to do more research around this but I had a quick look at the link you gave me and in Chapter 11 it talks about Labour parties specifically including the following:

 

"A special category of prisoners worked in the Etappengebiet (War Zone), building roads and railway lines or even digging trenches. While this was a violation in spirit of the Hague Agreements, the Allies followed the same practice with their POW labor. Prisoners assigned to this work came from the parent camps at Friedrichsfeld, Limburg, and Wahn."

 

So your suggestion seems to bear fruit. I do wonder if they did succumb to the Flu since it was prevalent and they would have been hard worked and weak? Some interesting lines to be pursued.

 

The only remaining question is what was he doing when he was captured and where was he? The Battalion Diary ends at the separation of the Regiment in June and since I have now idea of what, "Base" means by Wryall or what cobbled Division it might have been that he could have been returned to it seems anyone's guess. I suppose the Diary itself might be more specific as to the destination of the residual troops?

 

The help I have received with this has been fascinating and very helpful so thanks to you both.

 

Alun

[Pollexfen]

Just to round this up I have found a few references now to conditions for Prisoner of war concerning workcamps. This one by Oliver Wilkinson in his book, "British Prisoners in First World War Germany" specifically mentions Ramecourt.

 

Given and other testimonies of others which I have seen excerpts from (originals at TNA) its a wonder there's not more buried at St Erme...but then again perhaps not so surprising?

 

Thanks once again for all the good advice I received.

Alun