Hogkinsonclark Posted 13 August , 2018 Share Posted 13 August , 2018 We are researching the life of my grandfather James Baxter.1897 who was born in Childer Thornton Cheshire. We know a lot about his civvy life but very little about his service life. We know he joined up in 1914 aged just 17 and that he was demobbed in India in 1918. We have a collection of his photos and many of them show scenes in and around the Kyber Pass in 1918 and have included a few here.. We know he was in an artillery regiment but have so far been unable to track down his service record. We fear his records were amongst the many which were lost during the 1940 fire in London. We also have some formal photos of his uniform, would it be OK to post those here or provide a link to the full set of photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogkinsonclark Posted 13 August , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2018 The wording on the rear of the photos is quite hard to read, could the last picture be the zig zag mountain road I have read about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 13 August , 2018 Share Posted 13 August , 2018 (edited) Please post anything you have of him which may assist in identifying his service. Craig Edited 13 August , 2018 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogkinsonclark Posted 13 August , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2018 These are the formal images and are not all of my grandfather. I was looking for clues re. the regiments in the area in 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 13 August , 2018 Share Posted 13 August , 2018 The pictures labelled 5th North Staffs seem to be either Army service Corps (bottom picture) or east Lancashire regiment (second-bottom). Quite a few machine Gun Corps (crossed Vickers guns), such as the bloke with the pipe. The fellow with the white band round his cap is an Officer cadet 9and doesn't look like a N Staffs badge to me) The two chaps with pith helmets, seated on the grass, look like the flash says MGC (Machine Gun Corps), but I could be wrong The chap seated on a barrel, with a white-over blue brassard is a signaller. Ali masjid is a fort in Afghanistan. In 1878 it was the site of the first engagement of the 2nd Afghan War (and a Battle Honour carried by the 10th Royal Hussars, out of interest) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heid the Ba Posted 13 August , 2018 Share Posted 13 August , 2018 13 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said: Ali masjid is a fort in Afghanistan. In 1878 it was the site of the first engagement of the 2nd Afghan War (and a Battle Honour carried by the 10th Royal Hussars, out of interest) Ali Masjid is the narrowest point in the Khyber Pass, currently in the FATA in Pakistan and is still a narrow and winding road. The Indian Army had a camp there as well as the old Afghan Fort overlooking the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heid the Ba Posted 13 August , 2018 Share Posted 13 August , 2018 The top photo looks like Italians to me, partly the shape of the pith helmet and the front seat passenger looks to have black cockerel feathers on his so could be a Bersagliere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 13 August , 2018 Share Posted 13 August , 2018 56 minutes ago, Heid the Ba said: The top photo looks like Italians to me, partly the shape of the pith helmet and the front seat passenger looks to have black cockerel feathers on his so could be a Bersagliere. That crossed my mind too, as it happens. Either that or a very bad Tommy Cooper tribute act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 13 August , 2018 Share Posted 13 August , 2018 57 minutes ago, Heid the Ba said: The top photo looks like Italians to me, looks like Italians and North Africa ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heid the Ba Posted 13 August , 2018 Share Posted 13 August , 2018 22 minutes ago, charlie962 said: looks like Italians and North Africa ? Could be anywhere, though the rifle you can see looks like a Lee-Enfield but I'm no expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 13 August , 2018 Share Posted 13 August , 2018 (edited) Hodgkinsonclark, Welcome to the forum. You have given us a number of interesting photos but such a jumble it is difficult to know where to start. Can we first check what you do know: James Baxter was born 1897 Childer Thornton Cheshire. It is easy to find him on the 1901 and 1911 census. But do you have an exact date of birth? You 'know' he joined up 1914 and demobbed India 1918. How do you know this? Do you have any paper with his army number? You say he was in the artillery but you have made a note of South North Staffs on some photos and others show Machine Gun Corps and Army Service Corps. Can you make sense of this ? How do you know he was artillery? Where does the South Staffs identification come from ? One of the photos (man on a bucket) has the British War Medal ribbon which wasn't issued until after 1918 so it does not tie up with your GF leaving 1918 ( which sounds a bit quick for demob anyway). Are you sure of the demob date? Of course he could have been sent cards by some of his old comrades but this should be obvious from the reverse of the postcard ? Do you know if any of the men in the photos is definitely your GF ? Charlie edit PS have you a shorter user name ? Edited 13 August , 2018 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 13 August , 2018 Admin Share Posted 13 August , 2018 (edited) Just checked the Long Long Trail and that doesn't list a 5th Battalion of the North Staffordshire Regiment. There is a 1/5th Territorial - but that spent its time in France, 2/5th did the same and 3/5th never left the UK. The only battalion that saw service in India was the 2nd which started in India and remained there for the duration of the war. The photo of the "J Baxter" with the white cap band looks post ww1 to me and is the band denoting an Officer Cadet? I am also puzzled by the appearance of glasses in a "younger" photo and the absence in all the others, uniforms and badges also appear to be different. Been digging around for possible MICs that might fit but not found anything promising yet, will keep looking. Found 2 James Baxters in NSR - both MICs have them as Sergeants (presumably had been Corporals previously?) 6295 - entered France 28/07/1915 and was discharged on 14/12/1918 50897 Private in NSR then 177518 Sgt in Machine Gun Corps - he was awarded the Afghanistan / North Western Frontier Clasp 1919 (doesn't fit with believed discharge year) Address on MIC is Copster Green Near Blackburn / Astley Green near Darwin and had attracted a letter from his MP F Hindle Esq in 1924. Edited 13 August , 2018 by DavidOwen MIC details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 13 August , 2018 Share Posted 13 August , 2018 28 minutes ago, DavidOwen said: Just checked the Long Long Trail and that doesn't list a 5th Battalion of the North Staffordshire Regiment. I'd say none of the pictures show anyone in the North Staffs: as I said in post 2, one at least shows the East Lancashire Regiment, the rest seem to be MGC and ASC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 13 August , 2018 Admin Share Posted 13 August , 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said: I'd say none of the pictures show anyone in the North Staffs: as I said in post 2, one at least shows the East Lancashire Regiment, the rest seem to be MGC and ASC. Sorry Steven, missed your post! Back to the drawing board..... ...or maybe not as the second sergeant I mentioned was MGC and on the North West Frontier.... Edited 13 August , 2018 by DavidOwen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 13 August , 2018 Share Posted 13 August , 2018 39 minutes ago, DavidOwen said: Just checked the Long Long Trail and that doesn't list a 5th Battalion of the North Staffordshire Regiment. The 3/5th BN became the 5th Reserve Bn in Sept 1916. The 1/5th absorbed the 2/5th in Feb 1918 so may have been called the 5th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 13 August , 2018 Admin Share Posted 13 August , 2018 3 minutes ago, PhilB said: The 3/5th BN became the 5th Reserve Bn in Sept 1916. Missed that one Phil, but they didn't leave the UK as I read it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogkinsonclark Posted 13 August , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2018 First of all thanks everyone for taking the time to respond. We have all the information about his civvy life including 1901 and 1911 census records, abodes before and after his army service, it is only his army service we need to discover. He was born on 7th March 1897 and the birth registered at Childer Thornton. He was 17 when he enlisted from family testament and he was 17 in 1914. He would have enlisted in either Preston or Blackburn Lancashire. East Lancs Regiment would fit with this as it is in the right area. The story in the family has always been that he was in the Horse Artillery, his love of horses starting way back during his early farming years. The interest in the 5th North Stafs Regt only came about by the fact that it is written in the address panel of some of the postcards. The postcards have no other writing on them just the regiment. The few living relatives we have do not remember the 'Staffs' being mentioned before. We have no record of his service number, medals etc. He never settled in the same place for long and his paperwork had been packed and unpacked so many times and has been lost. Family members are undecided about which pictures show my GD but the one bearing the name L Cprl Baxter is felt to look a lot like him. We also had a Joseph Baxter who fell at Aubers Ridge and we have his full service history with the Scots Guards and was never in India. The attached photo bears the words 'Group of Demob Boys' and is part of a roll of contact prints, some of which bear the date 1918, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 13 August , 2018 Share Posted 13 August , 2018 (edited) The picture that is listed 'as L/Cpl Baxter' - if it was of James, one obvious question I would ask it why does it have 'yours sincerely Cyril' written on it ? Craig Edited 13 August , 2018 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 13 August , 2018 Share Posted 13 August , 2018 The chances are that they are being sent back to the UK for demob: as mentioned before. They would not be demobbed in India (they'd still need to be subject to military discipline for the return trip), but would be demobbed on arrival in UK (the same happened to my father coming back from Egypt in 1946), so this is (I suspect) a group of happy campers about to sail for home. It does look to me as if you have photographs of several different chaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 13 August , 2018 Share Posted 13 August , 2018 Just now, Steven Broomfield said: It does look to me as if you have photographs of several different chaps I agree with that. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 13 August , 2018 Share Posted 13 August , 2018 Where was James living in 1911 ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogkinsonclark Posted 13 August , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2018 We are in the dark about who the soldiers are in the photographs. The collection was found in the effects of my aunty who passed away a few years ago. It may help if you see all of the photos together in order to tie them together in some way. I have them on a draft web page of his life story on our website http://www.hodgkinsonclark.co.uk/jamesbaxter.htm In 1911, he was living in Copster Green, nr. Blackburn Lancashire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 13 August , 2018 Admin Share Posted 13 August , 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Hogkinsonclark said: In 1911, he was living in Copster Green, nr. Blackburn Lancashire Which brings me back to this sergeant I mentioned in post #12 above. Given the North Staffs connection and his service on the North West Frontier it does all start to connect (not guaranteed of course!) Images courtesy of Ancestry free access Edited 13 August , 2018 by DavidOwen corrected re facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogkinsonclark Posted 13 August , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2018 Thanks for that David, the mention of Copster Green would suggest that this is the chap. I have found that record on Ancestry via his MGC service number but it doesn't find the record using his name, is this usual, what did you search for to find it without the number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 13 August , 2018 Admin Share Posted 13 August , 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Hogkinsonclark said: Thanks for that David, the mention of Copster Green would suggest that this is the chap. I have found that record on Ancestry via his MGC service number but it doesn't find the record using his name, is this usual, what did you search for to find it without the number? Just the initial of his first name and the number/s from the National Archives record. Be cautious these things can be deceptive! Although the address does seem too much for it to be a coincidence. Would love to know why the MP was involved! Always check TNA for a MIC before looking at Ancestry. Edited 13 August , 2018 by DavidOwen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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