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RGJDEE

Lithgow P1907

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RGJDEE

A new addition to the collection, 

Not strictly 1914/18, but close.

I saw this a couple of months ago, 

havent seen any lithgows since I started collecting, so clearly rarer here in the UK. To quote a gentleman of this forum,“ buy it you might not see another”

So here it is, your thoughts as always very welcome.

Regards R.

Anyone make out this is a small group of numbers or just putting on the pommel?

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8E3E2FF4-2003-43A6-99C2-0E57C61A6F2B.jpeg

6D797FEA-209F-4ADC-B6F3-2D6EFB654607.jpeg

E40382BE-91F5-474D-A1CC-3C690979C492.jpeg

FDD8C858-4340-463B-9CE0-CAC618B987C0.jpeg

Edited by RGJDEE

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JMB1943

Richard,

 

It looks like scabbard is also from Oz; note the MA stamp on chape, A star on the locket and the large-ish round button, also characteristic of Oz.

Is that an M on the tang?

The blade seems to be in very nice shape, so overall a nice one, Enjoy!

 

Regards,

JMB

 

 

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Dave66

Nice combination Richard, don't tend to see many so a very worthwhile addition😄

 

Dave.

 

Edited by Dave66

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RGJDEE

Hi JMB , yes that’s correct M on the tang. and WW2 scabbard marked Mangrovite 1942.

Do you know what the M on the tang signifies.?

sadly no unit markings, but a nice addition. All I need now is a Vickers, a Remington, a J A C (stamped Chapman .New ’Chapman ‘ To be un veiled soon)

A “Proper “ Mole and the range of manufacturers will be complete.

Regards R.

The blade especially was filthy , and cleaned up nicely. 

Edited by RGJDEE

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JMB1943
7 minutes ago, RGJDEE said:

Hi JMB , yes that’s correct M on the tang. and WW2 scabbard marked Mangrovite 1942.

Do you know what the M on the tang signifies.?

Regards R.

 

Possibly just a factory worker’s mark??

 

Regards,

JMB

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RGJDEE

Perhaps some of the Aussie contributors /collectors can share their Knowledge?

R

Edited by RGJDEE

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Chasemuseum

Regarding the bayonet scabbard.

 

"MA" on the chape stands for manufacture at Lithgow, as opposed to "MO" for manufacture at the armaments workshops at Orange (a town about 2 to 3 hours west of Lithgow) and a few other codes. The "Mangrovite Belting Company" manufactured the leather body of scabbards during WW2 and marked their production with "MANGROVITE 42" (or whichever year is appropriate) on the stitched side of the scabbard, next to the rib, in very large letters and near to the start of the metal locket. They also produced a wide variety of other military leather goods during WW2, particularly bayonet frogs and  P1903 water bottle carriers.

 

Looking at that scabbard and the locket not having the three large rivets normally seen on WW2 scabbards, I would suspect that this scabbard is pre-war (WW2) and possibly original to the bayonet. I cannot comment on what dates Lithgow switched between pear (tear drop) shaped frog studs and large or small round frog studs, except that WW2 production is mostly large & round with the 3 locket rivets visible.

Cheers

Ross

 

PS  If you refer to Ian Skennerton & Bob Richardson "British & Commonwealth Bayonets" pages 186 & 187 also 194 & 195 there is a bit of information on variations of scabbards but only limited data on dates of production.

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RGJDEE

Thankyou Ross, I should of posted a photo of the scabbard & markings to the leather . This one is dated 42. Maybe it was re-furbished ? ( considering your information about the chape being an early one?) 

Thanks again R

22076E76-284C-41FD-9091-2E2365EF4214.jpeg

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JMB1943

All lockets have the three rivets, to attach the springs to the locket, referred to.

Peace-time production required that they were ground flat.

War-time production allowed them to stand proud of the locket as a manufacturing expediency.

So it seems that you have a WW2 leather mated with a pre- or between-wars locket.

Another point of interest is that the Lithgow Bayonets often have the ricasso stamps applied upside down (compared to British usage).

My single Lithgow (7 ‘21) does have right way up stamps on both ricasso, but yours has upside down on the left ricasso and right way up on the right ricasso.

Interesting combination!

 

Regards,

JMB

 

There is a P stamp on the curved tang surface of my 7 ‘21, presumably just a workman ‘s stamp.

Edited by JMB1943
Add info

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RGJDEE
2 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

All lockets have the three rivets, to attach the springs to the locket, referred to.

Peace-time production required that they were ground flat.

War-time production allowed them to stand proud of the locket as a manufacturing expediency.

So it seems that you have a WW2 leather mated with a pre- or between-wars locket.

Another point of interest is that the Lithgow Bayonets often have the ricasso stamps applied upside down (compared to British usage).

My single Lithgow (7 ‘21) does have right way up stamps on both ricasso, but yours has upside down on the left ricasso and right way up on the right ricasso.

Interesting combination!

 

Regards,

JMB

 

There is a P stamp on the curved tang surface of my 7 ‘21, presumably just a workman ‘s stamp.

There is a 2/21 Lithgow P1907 ( albeit with a double seam scabbard) on sale here in the UK for a mere £395 !The stamps are both “ right way up,”

( hope “Interesting”, doesn’t mean anything un-toward !)

regards R.

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