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Jervis

"Ireland was officially a 'theatre of war'" ?

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Jervis

In Robert Graves' memoirs 'Goodbye to all that' he claims he did not have to wait in line to be demobilised with home service troops as he was by then (1918) based in Ireland. 

 

"Ireland was officially a 'theatre of war'; demobilisation from theatres of war had priority over home service demobilisation."

 

I have never seen Ireland referred to as theatre of war during the Great War and this surprises me a lot. 

 

Was Graves correct with this statement ? 

 

 

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Retlaw
1 hour ago, Jervis said:

In Robert Graves' memoirs 'Goodbye to all that' he claims he did not have to wait in line to be demobilised with home service troops as he was by then (1918) based in Ireland. 

 

"Ireland was officially a 'theatre of war'; demobilisation from theatres of war had priority over home service demobilisation."

 

I have never seen Ireland referred to as theatre of war during the Great War and this surprises me a lot. 

 

Was Graves correct with this statement ? 

 

 

Well if Ireland was a theatre  of war,  how come men who served there did'nt get the same entitlement to medals as those who served on other war fronts.

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IPT

We all know that Ireland was considered home service. It's still possible that they got precedence over the mainland for demobilization?

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Wexflyer
3 hours ago, IPT said:

We all know that Ireland was considered home service. It's still possible that they got precedence over the mainland for demobilization?

 

Mainland meaning Europe, I presume.

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corisande
2 hours ago, Wexflyer said:

 

Mainland meaning Europe, I presume. 

 

Yes, I smiled at that reference to the Mainland too.

 

Remember the apocryphal newspaper headline supposedly once read, "Fog in Channel; Continent Cut Off"

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IPT

mainland Britain 

(ˈmeɪnˌlænd ˈbrɪtən)
 
noun
England, Wales, and Scotland excluding those adjacent islands governed from the mainland
 
Collins English Dictionary. 
 
 
Edited by IPT
hyperlink nonsense

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corisande

Where you mis-interpret the definition is that you are mistaking the "island of Britain, or Great Britain", ie the lot that you refer to above,  from the "British Isles" which include the "Island of Ireland"

 

between the Act of Union in 1800 and Irish Independence the country was the United Kingdom

 

The Acts of Union 1800 were parallel acts of the Parliament of Great Britain and the Parliament of Ireland which united the Kingdom of Great Britain and the Kingdom of Ireland to create the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.  Today if you consult your passport, it is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

 

Although Britain is an offshore island of Europe, Ireland is not, as much as the English would like to think so, an offshore island of Britain

 

Always a pleasure to put an Englishman right on this :thumbsup:

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depaor01
5 hours ago, corisande said:

Where you mis-interpret the definition is that you are mistaking the "island of Britain, or Great Britain", ie the lot that you refer to above,  from the "British Isles" which include the "Island of Ireland"

 

between the Act of Union in 1800 and Irish Independence the country was the United Kingdom

 

The Acts of Union 1800 were parallel acts of the Parliament of Great Britain and the Parliament of Ireland which united the Kingdom of Great Britain and the Kingdom of Ireland to create the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.  Today if you consult your passport, it is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

 

Although Britain is an offshore island of Europe, Ireland is not, as much as the English would like to think so, an offshore island of Britain

 

Always a pleasure to put an Englishman right on this :thumbsup:

I was about to post that mainland would have been correct for the time. Glad I didn't!

You've just put an Irishman (With some Norman contamination) right too. 

 

I've designed some exhibition panels for 1918 that I may have to erm... modify.

 

Thanks for that.

Dave

 

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corisande

 

Always a pleasure to put an Irishman right as well :thumbsup:

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
6 hours ago, corisande said:

Where you mis-interpret the definition is that you are mistaking the "island of Britain, or Great Britain", ie the lot that you refer to above,  from the "British Isles" which include the "Island of Ireland"

 

 

And it depends which "Great Britain" you are referring to- the geographical, or the political units.

Sir Fôn (Anglesey), Ynys Gybi (Holy Island, Holyhead), Ynys Wyth (Isle of Wight), Ynysoedd Heledd (Hebrides) and Ynys Wair (Lundy) are not parts of the geographical GB, whereas within common political usage, they are.

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kenf48

Most of "Goodbye to All That', whilst a great read, has, as was later acknowledged by Graves, to be treated with caution.

 

In fact when the war ended Graves had a posting as an instructor at the 16th Officer Cadet Battalion Kinmel Park, Rhyl from where, on the night of the Armistice he went out, 'walking alone along the dyke above the marshes of Rhuddlan...cursing and sobbing and thinking of the dead'.(GTAT).

 

He then discovered that he would be entitled to a Government Grant of £200 a year while a student if he took up his Classics Exhibition at St John's College Oxford, with a baby on the way this was too good an opportunity to miss.  He learned that St John's would ask for him to be demobilised once he received a signed release from the Colonel of his Officer Cadet  Battalion. However it turned out not to be quite so straightforward and he realised he would need a signed release from the Colonel of his Battalion which was now stationed in Limerick.

He therefore travelled to Ireland under his own steam in mid-January 1919.  On his arrival he found that due to the troubles all demobilisation had been stopped.  However the telegram from the War Office authorising his demobilisation had arrived and provided he was on the 6.15 train that evening he would be able to leave but he needed the Colonel's signature and code marks from the Battalion demobilisation officer.  The latter were not supplied as Graves beloved the Adjutant was obstructing his demobilisation.  He therefore decided to make a run for it and caught the train.  On arrival in London his luck held and he was able to get his papers completed.

 

His demobilisation had nothing to do with whether or not Ireland was a 'theatre of war' which it was not but was a 'home' posting during the war. 

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

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voltaire60

2 small observations, which might cheer up Wex

 

1)  Great Britain is the lagest island of the British Isles. Until the early 19th Century the term "British Empire" meant the totality of the islands of the British Island, not the bits coloured red a bit later on.

2) As to perspectives of who is offshore to whom, then the title of an older scholarly book by Patrick O'Farrell sums it all up-"Ireland's English Question"

:wub:

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Wexflyer

It is all very simple really. Britain is the bit that blocks what would otherwise be a beautiful view of France from the mainland....

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voltaire60
3 minutes ago, Wexflyer said:

It is all very simple really. Britain is the bit that blocks what would otherwise be a beautiful view of France from the mainland....

 

 Alas, the Manx outlook is that both Britain and Ireland are outlying islands.   Wex- you should go off and look at Brendan Bradshaw's work- he calls the whole shabang "the British  Archipelago"

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Wexflyer
5 hours ago, voltaire60 said:

 

 Alas, the Manx outlook is that both Britain and Ireland are outlying islands.   Wex- you should go off and look at Brendan Bradshaw's work- he calls the whole shabang "the British  Archipelago"

 

The late lamented Rev. Dr. may have suffered from a process of osmosis, or perhaps a surfeit of port in Queen's SCR? 

 

In any case, from where I like to stand, looking at the ferries to France, the view is obscured, and the route lengthened...

Edited by Wexflyer

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Being a Citizen (by Birth) of Anglesey, I can honestly and confidently say that you are all wrong.

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Jervis
On 10/08/2018 at 18:31, kenf48 said:

Most of "Goodbye to All That', whilst a great read, has, as was later acknowledged by Graves, to be treated with caution.

 

In fact when the war ended Graves had a posting as an instructor at the 16th Officer Cadet Battalion Kinmel Park, Rhyl from where, on the night of the Armistice he went out, 'walking alone along the dyke above the marshes of Rhuddlan...cursing and sobbing and thinking of the dead'.(GTAT).

 

He then discovered that he would be entitled to a Government Grant of £200 a year while a student if he took up his Classics Exhibition at St John's College Oxford, with a baby on the way this was too good an opportunity to miss.  He learned that St John's would ask for him to be demobilised once he received a signed release from the Colonel of his Officer Cadet  Battalion. However it turned out not to be quite so straightforward and he realised he would need a signed release from the Colonel of his Battalion which was now stationed in Limerick.

He therefore travelled to Ireland under his own steam in mid-January 1919.  On his arrival he found that due to the troubles all demobilisation had been stopped.  However the telegram from the War Office authorising his demobilisation had arrived and provided he was on the 6.15 train that evening he would be able to leave but he needed the Colonel's signature and code marks from the Battalion demobilisation officer.  The latter were not supplied as Graves beloved the Adjutant was obstructing his demobilisation.  He therefore decided to make a run for it and caught the train.  On arrival in London his luck held and he was able to get his papers completed.

 

His demobilisation had nothing to do with whether or not Ireland was a 'theatre of war' which it was not but was a 'home' posting during the war. 

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Ken.

To be fair to Graves - the context was about him jumping the queue in the demobilisation centre in Wimbledon not the reason why he was demobilised. 

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John
On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 6:13 AM, Wexflyer said:

 

Mainland meaning Europe, I presume.

Well said!

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