Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

Sign in to follow this  
Steve hiscox

pte frederick john arscott 75930

Recommended Posts

Steve hiscox

Was over in cambrai yesterday and promised I'd post a request on here as everyone on here are so helpful. 

It's a request for our friend regarding her gt.grandfather killed in 1917 at I believe cambrai.

She wanted to know who the tank crew were and if there was a number of the tank , photos or even if the tank was named.

Would really appreciate any information at all.

Many thanks 

Steve 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
clk

Hi Steve,

 

In his CWGC records, the 'concentration' sheet says that his body was exhumed from K.33.a.0.7 and moved to his current resting place. That reference is probably much closer to where he originally fell. If you were to need any help on interpreting it, there is advice here. If I've got the correct map sheet, this link should open up a map from September 1917 with square K.33 in the centre of the screen.

 

Sorry that I can't help with your direct questions. May I suggest that you edit the title of you topic, and include Tank Corps. Hopefully, the tank specialists will then have their eyes drawn to it.

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
delta

The place of his original burial is to the south of Havrincourt, in the G Battalion area and to the west of where D Battalion deployed and were in action . 

He originally served in the KRRC (R/29381) and based on his Tank Corps number probably transferred around New Year 1917 as D Battalion formed. 

The CWGC records says Killed in Action  - will do some more digging. 

Edited by delta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Steve hiscox

Thankyou fellas .

Steve 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
delta

I'm not having much joy to date.

Can you please confirm date and place of birth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PRC

Pending the arrival of the cavalry, there is a little bit more on the three companys that made up D Battalion on the Landships website.

 

10 Company : https://sites.google.com/site/landships/home/narratives/1917/cambrainarratives/10company20november1917

11 Company: https://sites.google.com/site/landships/home/narratives/1917/cambrainarratives/11company20november1917

12 Company: https://sites.google.com/site/landships/home/narratives/1917/cambrainarratives/12company20november1917

 

I see from the Concentration Report attached to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission webpage for Frederick that he and another unknown British Soldier of the Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry were recovered from unmarked graves at the same map reference. While the grave marker may have got lost in subsequent fighting, there is also the possibility that he was buried by the Germans, possibly while they were subsequently recovering tanks for future use after the counter-attack.

 

Looking at the Grave Registration Report for Frederick, it doesn't look like the unknown KOYLI man was identified, but looking at the other KOYLI men on the same page of the report shows a man of the 2nd/5th Battalion who died on the 20th November 1917. That Battalion were in 187th Brigade of 62nd Division - the unit supported by 19 Company of G Battalion. 19 Company went into action on that day with eight tanks of D Company attached (some at short notice), although apparently they were renumbered fron G70 onwards.

https://sites.google.com/site/landships/home/narratives/1917/cambrainarratives/19company20november1917

 

Hope that helps set the scene,

 

Peter

Edited by PRC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Steve hiscox

That is brilliant...they will be so pleased to learn that☺

I'll check for dob and post it later

Steve 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Steve hiscox

Still waiting to hear back. ..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Steve hiscox

OK. .just recieved this-

Born islington

Married  to Ellen

Fathers name - George

Mums name- Marrion 

Hope that helps

 

 

Born 1879

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PRC

According to the General Registrars’ Office Index of Births for England and Wales, (as transcribed on FreeBMD), there was no Frederick John registered between 1873 (Plymouth District) and 1907 (Frederick John T, Islington District). There is however a John Frederick whose birth was registered with the Civil Authorities in the St Pancras District of London in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1879. Then, as now, you had 42 days after the event to register the birth without facing prosecution and a fine, so potentially he could have been born as early as the middle of November 1878.

 

Going from the census record, most likely matches are:-

 

1881 England and Wales. Frederick J. Arscott. Aged 2, born St Pancras, London. Parents George, (37, Merchants Clerk, born Exeter) and Jane, (aged 38, born Manchester). Three siblings. One of the households at 33 Belmont Street, St Pancras.

 

1891 England and Wales. Frederick Arscott. Aged 13, born St Pancras, London. Parents George, (46, Tram Car Driver, born Exeter) and Marian, (38, born Exeter). 6 siblings. One of the households at 2, Surr Street, Islington.

 

1901 England and Wales. Frederick Arscott. Aged 21 Horsekeeper Groom, born Kentish Town. Parents George, (58, Horsekeeper Groom, born Exeter) and Marian, (49, born Exeter).

2 siblings. Recorded as one of the households at 27 Corinth Road, Islington.

 

1911 England and Wales. No obvious match for Frederick or John. His parents were now living at 80 Goodings Road, Islington. Father George, (69) was now working as a Newsvendor. Also in the household is their 13 year old son Joseph who was then still at school. This was the first census in the UK where the details were intended to be completed by the householder rather than a census taker going door to door. A declaration was then completed to say that the information given was correctly filled up to “the best of my knowledge and belief”. In fact young Joseph has completed the form on his fathers’ behalf. Because he was too young to sign the declaration legally, I suspect the census checker has gone back to the household as in another persons’ handwriting there is added “For G. Arscott” and then “X, his mark”

 

This may explain some of the inconsistencies around age although how he worked as a merchants clerk, (1881 census), beats me. The other piece of information of relevance on the 1911 census is that the couple have been married 24 years, (i.e. circa 1887), so as I suspected from the earlier census information, Marian was not Fredericks’ birth mother.

 

The death of a 39 year old Jane Arscott was recorded in the Marylebone District in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1883, although that could still be a co-incidence.

 

The marriage of a Frederick John Arscott to an Ellen Evans was recorded in the Islington District in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1901.

 

There is no likely match for a John Frederick Arscott getting married.

 

However the most likely match for a Frederick and Ellen Arscott who have been married 9 years on the 1911 census of England and Wales is a 33 year old Frederick, a self employed Carpet Beater, who was born Exeter, Devon. Ellen, (32), was born Kensington. They were living at 39 Hollingsworth Road, Holloway. The couple have had 5 children, all then still alive. They were – best guesses as the writing has faded badly -  Alice, (8), Rosey, (5), Frederick, (4), Lily, (2) and Charley, (5 months) – all born Holloway.

 

Other children that were probably theirs and born post the 1911 census –

Joseph S Arscott, mothers maiden name Evans, Islington District Q3 1913.

Ethel D Arscott, mothers maiden name Evans, Islington District Q3 1916.

 

So he could have been recorded in his Army Service records as Frederick John or John Frederick or Frederick or John, born St Pancras \ Kentish Town \ Islington or Exeter, with mother Lucy \ Marian \ Mary Ann, in 1878/1879 :-)

 

Hope that helps!

 

Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Steve hiscox

Peter..that's a load of info to work through .

Many many thanks for taking the time to investigate and then post it for us.

Regards Steve 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×