William H. Fry, a soldier of the 17th, 14th and 15th Battalions of the Welsh Regiment

[KAF]

I'm researching my great uncle before going to visit his grave at Varennes Cemetary 100 years after he died, 5th September 1918.

There appears to be no birth certificate, but William Henry Fry was 4 in the 1901 census and 14 in the 1911 one, so he would have been 18 or more likely 19 in March 1916 when enlistment started. We know from his younger brother that he was a miner in Pontypridd, a reserved occupation. Perhaps he had left mining? If conscripted, WHF would have been in Group 1, the last group to be mobilised – 26^th March 1916. He was awarded the British War Medal and the Victory medal, which confirms that he was enlisted.

William (no. 25378) joined the 17th (1st Glamorgan) Battalion, Welsh Regiment, a Bantam Regiment - which would fit, as we are small in out family! However it appears that bantam regiments by that time took men of any height. After the 17th was disbanded he was sent to the 14th. However he was not with them long as he was ill with a fever (Army Form B104-80A sent to his mother) in hospital in Boulogne on 9th March. He recovered, and on an unknown date joined the 15th Battalion. The next confirmed detail is his death from wounds on 5th September 1918 during the 2nd Battle of the Somme. As there was a casualty clearing station at Varennes, no. 59, it is likely that he died here.

My visit (which will be by bicycle) will take in at least part of the route that he presumably took with his battalions. I have read the war diaries of the 17th and 15th Battalions and plotted their routes on a map. It seems unlikely that we shall ever know how far east he got before being wounded. (I also keep meaning to get a copy of The Carmarthen Pals, a history of the 15th Welsh).

It has been fascinating and humbling researching a young man who left very little record of his short life. Any comments or suggestions are welcome, and I hope you find this interesting.

[clk]

Hi KAF,

 

The amount of War Gratuity paid in his Soldiers' Effects record is indicative of calculated service counting from circa January 1915. The record seems to say that he died in the care of (or perhaps en route to) 3 Canadian Casualty Clearing Station.

 

Regards

Chris 

Edited 31 July , 2018 by clk

[sotonmate]

The CWGC (war graves) site mentions that the Varennes Military Cemetery had No 3 Canadian Casualty Clearing Station, plus the British No 59 CCS, present in Sept 1918. As clk has noted it is likely that the Canadian unit cared for your GU until his death.

They have a War Diary on the National Archives Discovery database, WO95/418/4, covering the period of your interest, and which may have names of casualties mentioned on a daily basis, but with the British records this is not a common feature, daily figures would be a numbers record of casualty traffic.

[clk]

Hi KAF,

 

As an alternative to the National Archives (UK), the diary is available (free of charge) from the Library and Archives Canada - link. Unfortunately, it doesn't mention William by name.

 

Image source: the Library and Archives Canada

 

Regards

Chris

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Son of Alfred  (b. Malmesbury abt.1874) and Alma Fry (b Malmesbury abt. 1873), of 78, Albert St., Canton, Cardiff.

Alfred & Alma (nee Berry) married Malmesbury June qtr. 1894.

Aged 21, so born between 6/9/1896 & 5/9/1897.

1901, All 3 living at 143 Wellington Street, Canton, Cardiff, with younger brother Percy aged 1. William H. aged 4 yrs stated to have been born in Malmesbury

1911 All living at 18 Rolls Street, Canton, Cardiff, with other children, Percy, Frederick & Edward. Willie now stated to have been born in Cardiff.

All mis-indexed by Ancestry as "Try" rather than "Fry".

William mis-indexed a Wlelie

 

Births from BMD for 1896-97 for William Fry give several possibles, but I think this one is a possibility:

 

Births Sep 1896   (>99%)
Fry	William Henry		Cardiff	11a	474

 

[KAF]

Gosh, I'm delighted to get so much back so quickly - thanks to you all. Certainly much to look into - or re-look. I spent quite a lot of time on BMD last autumn but didn't get far with Ancestry - but there's now a possible reason for that. The most likely-seeming Wm Fry actually ties in with a death much too late - he would have been the right age - but of course the only way to confirm this is to get a birth certificate copy. Alfred and Alma had to leave Malmesbury in a hurry in 1898 after Alf flooded his father's pub cellar with beer... this of course is a family story and we all know they can be unreliable.

No.3 CCS is a surprise, hadn't spotted it at all, so thanks, and the Soldiers Effects was something I'd not got round to looking into. I must book myself a session on the computers at a local library where you can get Ancestry! I got a bit disillusioned with lack of progress but this has enthused me again.

[ss002d6252]

Looking at his effects entry in more depth

https://www.wargratuity.uk

 

Looking at other records, #25377 was issued March 1915 so this would tell us that #25378 should be issued on or slightly later.  William's war gratuity indicates that he had earlier service with a unit prior to being allocated his Welsh number. This service need not be directly prior to March 15 (the war gratuity date of Dec 14 is for continuous service but we can say he had 45 months in total).

 

Craig

[Aneurin]

 

The South Wales Daily News (not online) of 14 September 1918 says William Fry was employed at Lady Lewis Pit, Porth, Rhondda when he enlisted in 1914; and that he was wounded twice and returned to France (the front?)  25 August 1918. There is also a photograph.

Gwyn

[ss002d6252]

1 hour ago, Aneurin said:

 

The South Wales Daily News (not online) of 14 September 1918 says William Fry was employed at Lady Lewis Pit, Porth, Rhondda when he enlisted in 1914; and that he was wounded twice and returned to France (the front?)  25 August 1918. There is also a photograph.

 

Gwyn

Excellent, at least that provides extra confirmation of an enlistment in 1914.

 

Craig

[KAF]

On 02/08/2018 at 12:18, Aneurin said:

 

The South Wales Daily News (not online) of 14 September 1918 says William Fry was employed at Lady Lewis Pit, Porth, Rhondda when he enlisted in 1914; and that he was wounded twice and returned to France (the front?)  25 August 1918. There is also a photograph.

 

Gwyn

This of course is very interesting to me, to see a photo of WHF is something I would not have expected at all! Is this newspaper archived in the National Library of Wales? I can see a visit to Cardiff being a good idea!

Thanks very much,

KAF

[KAF]

On 01/08/2018 at 20:57, ss002d6252 said:

Looking at his effects entry in more depth

https://www.wargratuity.uk

 

Looking at other records, #25377 was issued March 1915 so this would tell us that #25378 should be issued on or slightly later.  William's war gratuity indicates that he had earlier service with a unit prior to being allocated his Welsh number. This service need not be directly prior to March 15 (the war gratuity date of Dec 14 is for continuous service but we can say he had 45 months in total).

 

Craig

Hi Craig,

Really interesting, if he volunteered as early as that he would have been only about 17. This could square with his medals (I think) as the 17th Welsh didn't get to France till June 1916. And if he joined up early on in the life of the battalion he was much more likely to be an actual 'bantam'!

Cheers,

KAF

[Aneurin]

KAF

 

Cardiff Library have the SWDN on microfilm. Their Local Studies collection is now located at Cathays Library. See details here:: https://www.cardiff.gov.uk/ENG/resident/Libraries-and-archives/Find-a-library/Pages/Cathays-Library.aspx

 

You could see if they're prepared to look it up for you.

 

The South Wales Echo was the SWDN's evening paper at the time, so it might be worth checking that around the date. Also the Cardiff Times, which was their Saturday weekly title. 

 

The National Library of Wales at Aberystwyth probably have the SWDN.

 

Gwyn

[ss002d6252]

2 hours ago, KAF said:

Hi Craig,

Really interesting, if he volunteered as early as that he would have been only about 17. This could square with his medals (I think) as the 17th Welsh didn't get to France till June 1916. And if he joined up early on in the life of the battalion he was much more likely to be an actual 'bantam'!

Cheers,

KAF

Whar medals did he get ?

 

Craig

[KAF]

17 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

Whar medals did he get ?

 

Craig

Hi Craig,

The British War Medal and the Victory medal.

Cheers,

Karen

[KAF]

At last found time to do a couple of hours on Ancestry - has to be a county library rather than city - and found the Soldiers Effects and War Medals forms. Not much to learn from the latter, and I wouldn't have made much from the former, without your explanation, CLK, so thanks again. Got sidetracked by WHF's father's war pension records - now I don't think we knew he signed up at all! He was discharged after 3 months with rheumatoid arthritis, and not long after that, WHF enlisted.

In the meantime I read the war diaries of the 17th and 15th Welsh - fascinating and harrowing at times, if in a terse way. I've plotted on maps where they went, it really brings home the sheer grind of life, backwards and forwards. I'll be visiting some of these places, as well as the bigger sites, in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for all your help!

[KAF]

So, very pleased to say that I got to my great-uncles gravestone on 5th September, 100 years to the day since he died. A very interesting and of course sobering few days cycling through what had been the Somme battlefields, visiting places that he may have been through. Extraordinary how it is now productive farmland. I'll continue to research his life, intending to make a visit to Cardiff, maybe in early 2019.

Thank you all for your help, I will know where to come if I've any further problems!

[KAF]

As well as all the information you all so generously gave me above, you helped with something of a mystery. My father had very thoroughly done his family history in the 1980's, but had not been able to find William Henry's birth certificate. I of course had the advantage of the internet - but had also got nowhere. We did wonder if he had not been registered. However, earlier this year I was looking again at his Soldier's Effects entry, trying to work out what it all meant, when I noticed in a fainter hand, in brackets next to his middle name, the name Alfred. That was odd, it's his father's name. Then I had a thought - it looks like an alternative middle name. There was a William Alfred Fry born in Malmsbury at exactly the right time - and yes, it turned out that this was him. So now we've a date of birth and another little mystery - why both names? We'll never know...

When I finally did get to Cathays Library in Cardiff, in early March this year, I saw his picture - very blurred and smudgy, but him, and he's captioned William A Fry.

Thanks again!

Karen Fry

20200307110946.pdf